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The only support I would give Hirsi Magan/Ali is, first, that I think stripping someone of their nationality for changing their name on the application form (with apparently no actual fraudulent intent, meaning, this change was not designed to help her gain the nationality she was seeking), is appalling, and so Verdonk's attitude stinks.

Secondly, Hirsi Ali criticizes Islam, in a sense, from within, by which I mean that's the religious culture she comes from, and I support Muslims (or ex-) who fight to change the culture they know and originate from.

OTOH... She'd already announced that, though an elected representative in the Netherlands, she was leaving for the States. And she'd already shown that her critique of Islam was one that lined up with a clashista or neo-con view. It's not surprising she's off to work with the AEI.

So, overall, good riddance. And if, as you suggest, this divides and weakens the right, so much the better.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Wed May 17th, 2006 at 05:16:55 AM EST
In Hirsi Ali's own words:
You probably are wondering, what is my real name?

I am Ayaan, the daughter of Hirsi, who is the son of a man who took the name of Magan. Magan was the son of Isse, who was the son of Guleid, who was the son of Ali. He was the son of Wai'ays, who was the son of Muhammad. He was the son of Ali, who was the son of Umar. Umar was the son of Osman, who was the son of Mahamud. This is my clan, and therefore, in Somalia, this is my name: Ayaan Hirsi Magan Isse Guleid Ali Wai'ays Muhammad Ali Umar Osman Mahamud.

(My emphasis) If she wanted to mount a challenge to Verdonk's decision she could.

tens of millions of people stand to see their lives ruined because the bureaucrats at the ECB don't understand introductory economics -- Dean Baker
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed May 17th, 2006 at 05:39:20 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Good pick.

But I note the 9/11 hijackers from Germany, both in the US and back home, made use of the possibility to write their Arab names in a lot of different ways.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Wed May 17th, 2006 at 05:42:04 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I have said many times that I am not proud that I lied when I sought asylum in the Netherlands. It was wrong to do so. I did it because I felt I had no choice. I was frightened that if I simply said I was fleeing a forced marriage, I would be sent back to my family. And I was frightened that if I gave my real name, my clan would hunt me down and find me. So I chose a name that I thought I could disappear with - the real name of my grandfather, who was given the birth-name Ali. I claimed that my name was Ayaan Hirsi Ali, although I should have said it was Ayaan Hirsi Magan.
In the other paragraph she says her Grandfather "took the name Magan".

tens of millions of people stand to see their lives ruined because the bureaucrats at the ECB don't understand introductory economics -- Dean Baker
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed May 17th, 2006 at 05:44:50 AM EST
[ Parent ]
This could be a translation error.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Wed May 17th, 2006 at 05:49:34 AM EST
[ Parent ]
No, it is correct, her Grandfather was names Ali but changed his name to Magan so that became the legal name of his descendants. But in traditional societies people often know other people by their nicknames, or even by their parents' or grandparents' names or nicknames. This is all bullshit.

tens of millions of people stand to see their lives ruined because the bureaucrats at the ECB don't understand introductory economics -- Dean Baker
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed May 17th, 2006 at 05:54:18 AM EST
[ Parent ]
In any case, I think my point that she did not take on a false name with intent to defraud, stands. Fairly obviously this has been brought up now to score cheap points off her by sticking a knife in her back as she leaves -- and is possibly backfiring by making Verdonk look as bad as she should.

Still don't like Hirsi Magan/Ali for other reasons...

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Wed May 17th, 2006 at 07:09:04 AM EST
[ Parent ]
If the Wikipedia biography is accurate, she has an interesting trajectory, from (sympathising with) the Muslim Brotherhood to the American Enterprise Institute.

tens of millions of people stand to see their lives ruined because the bureaucrats at the ECB don't understand introductory economics -- Dean Baker
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed May 17th, 2006 at 07:10:34 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I've to take issue on that one, afew. Even while Hirsi Ali is an "one issue" woman, she has done tremendous work in the Netherlands to map out the structural flaws within the Islam society in the Netherlands and later on within the Islam itself. Now, on the latter, I think she's starting to head into a direction I do not particularly favour, and she has never been a tremendously gifted politician, but no one can fault her for not trying. But for the Netherlands as a nation, it is bad riddance, even while it was becoming inevitable she'd choose an even larger stage eventually.

But I'd sincerely believe that a self-made free-thinker as Hirsi Ali would be much better at place here in Europe than surrounded by the arch conservatives in the United States, a country with a very low Islam minority. In fact, I would not be surprised that the people within the AEI are suddenly faced with internal dilemma's themselves: I read that Ayaan for instance promoted pre-marriage, safe sex for women in Islamic countries, an issue which is at complete odds with the conservative christian moral dominant through the AEI! There is every bit of potential fireworks with her next move. The story of Hirsi Ali is far from being over and she remains in my opinion a person whose movements and writings should be closely tracked.

by Nomad on Wed May 17th, 2006 at 09:05:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Fair enough, you know more of the details than I do. But as you say, she'd be better in a complicated European situation than a dogmatically manichean American one, yet that is where she has chosen to go, and with an unequivocal AEI ticket.

It will in fact be interesting to see if she sticks to her guns in opposing religiously-inspired sexual taboos (of Islamic origin) when faced with the same (of Judeo-Christian origin).

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Wed May 17th, 2006 at 10:31:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]
It will in fact be interesting to see if she sticks to her guns in opposing religiously-inspired sexual taboos (of Islamic origin) when faced with the same (of Judeo-Christian origin).

I agree wholeheartedly with that. Interesting might just be scratching the surface of descriptive terms...

by Nomad on Wed May 17th, 2006 at 11:04:52 AM EST
[ Parent ]
The Netherlands does not seem like the best place for her, to be honest...
The direct cause for the ending of my membership in parliament is that on April 27 of this year, a Dutch court ruled that I must once again leave my home, because my neighbors filed a complaint that they could not feel safe living next to me. The Dutch government will appeal this verdict and I grateful for that, because how on earth will other people whose lives are threatened manage to find a place to stay if this verdict is allowed to rest?


tens of millions of people stand to see their lives ruined because the bureaucrats at the ECB don't understand introductory economics -- Dean Baker
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed May 17th, 2006 at 04:06:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Shades of Salman Rushdie's story. He left Britain in large part because of people (not jst right-wing) who'd opine that he should shut up and be grateful for the  millions spent on his personal defence rather than cause more trouble with stating his opinions or walking around town; and also types who opined that Muslim anger is rightful in his case.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Fri May 19th, 2006 at 07:51:22 AM EST
[ Parent ]
In fact, I may've updated this story a little too pessimistic. There's a fair chance a "speciality case" will be adopted for Hirsi Ali so she can retain her Dutch citizenship after all (for as long as she wants to have it, anyway). But also jurists have already expressed their surprise at the brief period it took Verdonk to reach her conclusions and there's a lot of ground to cover if Verdonk stubbornly returns to her course.
by Nomad on Wed May 17th, 2006 at 08:50:01 AM EST
[ Parent ]

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