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Although two points

Some of the things you mention are not memes are complete narratives and even myths.

You forget the support among some scientists, even of the left liberal kind.

I considered myself an enviromentalist but I support strongly the replacements of the old nuclear reactors for new.

I know not a lot of people thinks in this terms in the general frame of things. But supporitng a replacement but not expansion of present nuclear reactors have subset of narratives that are not present in a typical debate:

-They are more secure than the ones working now.
-The level of nuclear waste would manageable
-Nuclear fuel would indeed last more than 200 years at present U consumption
-It would not force out renewables since all new capactity should be made with renewable..giving it time to catch upon capacity.
-It provides the margin we need to change the grid/router and make the big jump, without going to coal, from a central to a central-disperse system (I would not promote a completely disperse system, it is not a very good idea as far as I understand network theory)

Of course, reaplcemente implies that if you do nto have nuclear you will need other sources of energy...and it will.. and it will be coal now...the cheapest.

A pleasure

I therefore claim to show, not how men think in myths, but how myths operate in men's minds without their being aware of the fact. Levi-Strauss, Claude

by kcurie on Mon May 22nd, 2006 at 05:49:41 AM EST
You forget the support among some scientists, even of the left liberal kind.

She doesn't - remember what she wrote regarding megaprojects and people involved when discussing the Three Gorges Dam.

Regarding your points:

  1. Renewables would be even more secure.
  2. ?
  3. This depends on political decisions (which can be changed), and given that investment in nuclear energy demands investment sustained over a decade or two, renewables would inherently be in a weak position.
  4. I don't understand why you think this. Replacement nuclear would, too, take decades to build, you could build the new grid in the same timespan.

That replacement of nuclear needs to be coal on price is a nice meme that is false.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Mon May 22nd, 2006 at 06:33:21 AM EST
[ Parent ]
The starting point which makes the difference in position is:

can you obtained the increase in demand in energy (slow increase thanks to saving measures) and the input of nuclears with renewables in a 10 years frame?

I think is physically impossible. If I would think it to be possible I would think like you.

I do not, I think it is not possible. At least for the case I know the best: Spain (not even talking about France).

We can not substitute coal and nuclear with renewables in a 10-15 years frame.

If we work hard, and exploit all possibilities, and invest hugely we can substitute most of the coal in a 15 years frame (and this is even a wild dream...a more realistic would be half coal or just cover the increase in demand). No way if we add the 20% of nuclear.

That said. We can substitute nuclear with renewable investing heavily in 15 years.. but then coal should be untouched.

I prefer to increase renewable and phase-out coal power as renewable improve.

The day I see a realistic proposal about how to change nuclear and coal in Spain in a 15 years frame with renewable I will cahnge my mind. And you know I am very very very open minded.. and I would love to see it.

A pleasure

I therefore claim to show, not how men think in myths, but how myths operate in men's minds without their being aware of the fact. Levi-Strauss, Claude

by kcurie on Mon May 22nd, 2006 at 07:07:38 AM EST
[ Parent ]
But supporitng a replacement but not expansion of present nuclear reactors

I added this option to the poll :-)

The difference between theory and practise in practise ...

by DeAnander (de_at_daclarke_dot_org) on Tue May 23rd, 2006 at 02:11:37 AM EST
[ Parent ]
you know it, don't you? :)

A pleasure

I therefore claim to show, not how men think in myths, but how myths operate in men's minds without their being aware of the fact. Levi-Strauss, Claude

by kcurie on Tue May 23rd, 2006 at 05:23:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]

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