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For no reason. But if you want to institute a change the burden of proof (and of compensation) lies with the advocates of the change (and its beneficiaries).

If people wanted to institute new trade barriers I'd probably oppose it on the grounds that not only you hurt some people but the likely aggregate loss (from comparative advantage) would prevent you from compensating the losers.

So let's just wrap up my position with this:

  • If you're going to use side payments to argue that a change is fair to most people, the side payments need to be actual, not hypothetical [mathematically: Kaldor-Hicks with actual side payments is probably close to Pareto]
  • If you're going to advocate a policy change because of an aggregate benefit, you have to use (part of) the aggregate benefit to actually, not hypothetically, compensate those who would otherwise oppose the change because they would be hurt.
  • On the issue of globalization, probably the thing to do is to liberalize trade while at the same time instituting a fund to help your own workers who will be forced to retrain into abother industry [such a "globalization adjustment fund" has been proposed at the EU level]
  • I remain unconvinced that with free movement of labour, capital, goods and services it makes sense to talk of separate economies. You then need a common economic policy with explicit redistributive elements to protect people from the whims of capital movements. With fixed labour and capital and moving goods, you can really talk about free trade between distinct economies.


guaranteed to evoke a violent reaction from police is to challenge their right to "define the situation." --- David Graeber citing Marc Cooper
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Jun 15th, 2006 at 10:54:59 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Either of you want to write up a human readable summary of this for the front page or should I do it?
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Thu Jun 15th, 2006 at 11:08:25 AM EST
[ Parent ]
This thread, not Migeru's position!
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Thu Jun 15th, 2006 at 11:08:59 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I'll do it if you'd like.

Conservatives want live babies so they can raise them to be dead soldiers. - George Carlin
by Drew J Jones (myfriends@thisispancakes.com) on Thu Jun 15th, 2006 at 11:14:25 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I should probably do it: I've learned more than you here I think.
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Thu Jun 15th, 2006 at 11:18:28 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I'm not sure about that.  You, Miguel, ATinNM, and others have helped to pull a lot of information back.  Beyond discussions here at ET, I haven't really been involved in any economics-related activities, so it helps to keep my mind going.

Now if I could only get off my lazy ass long enough to read some of those textbooks....

Conservatives want live babies so they can raise them to be dead soldiers. - George Carlin

by Drew J Jones (myfriends@thisispancakes.com) on Thu Jun 15th, 2006 at 11:26:57 AM EST
[ Parent ]
But you have the requisite knowledge of academic economics to properly put the whole thing in context.

guaranteed to evoke a violent reaction from police is to challenge their right to "define the situation." --- David Graeber citing Marc Cooper
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Jun 15th, 2006 at 11:29:50 AM EST
[ Parent ]
You assume that I'm able to keep my thoughts together for a long-enough period to allow me to do that.  I must remind you that flattery will get you nowhere. ;)

Conservatives want live babies so they can raise them to be dead soldiers. - George Carlin
by Drew J Jones (myfriends@thisispancakes.com) on Thu Jun 15th, 2006 at 11:34:34 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Reading original works and figuring things out for yourself are more fun and more productive than reading textbooks. You can make a killing selling those to unsuspecting undergraduates ;-)

guaranteed to evoke a violent reaction from police is to challenge their right to "define the situation." --- David Graeber citing Marc Cooper
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Jun 15th, 2006 at 11:31:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I agree about the original works.  I got more out of Keynes and Friedman than I ever got out of a textbook.

And, yes, there is big money in textbooks, if the author is well known and can, therefore, convince other professors to assign it to students.  I'm sure Krugman, Mankiw and Romer have earned plenty on textbooks, alone.

Conservatives want live babies so they can raise them to be dead soldiers. - George Carlin

by Drew J Jones (myfriends@thisispancakes.com) on Thu Jun 15th, 2006 at 11:43:16 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I was talking about the second-hand market.

guaranteed to evoke a violent reaction from police is to challenge their right to "define the situation." --- David Graeber citing Marc Cooper
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Jun 15th, 2006 at 11:45:09 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Oh, the second-hand market is fantastic for all of the textbook stores around here (all two of them).  I was under the impression that collusion was illegal, but I suppose it is not when the university is one of the parties that benefit from it.

Conservatives want live babies so they can raise them to be dead soldiers. - George Carlin
by Drew J Jones (myfriends@thisispancakes.com) on Thu Jun 15th, 2006 at 11:51:55 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Write it then: I'll complain if I think you missed anything! I really want the point that free-trade theory tells you what could happen, not what must happen included.
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Thu Jun 15th, 2006 at 11:32:45 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Write it then: I'll complain if I think you missed anything!

Fair enough.  Will do.

Conservatives want live babies so they can raise them to be dead soldiers. - George Carlin

by Drew J Jones (myfriends@thisispancakes.com) on Thu Jun 15th, 2006 at 11:36:28 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I'll complain if you forget Migeru's position. </snark>

guaranteed to evoke a violent reaction from police is to challenge their right to "define the situation." --- David Graeber citing Marc Cooper
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Jun 15th, 2006 at 11:49:12 AM EST
[ Parent ]
"Migeru hates freedom."  How's that? :D

Conservatives want live babies so they can raise them to be dead soldiers. - George Carlin
by Drew J Jones (myfriends@thisispancakes.com) on Thu Jun 15th, 2006 at 11:53:02 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Perfect.

guaranteed to evoke a violent reaction from police is to challenge their right to "define the situation." --- David Graeber citing Marc Cooper
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Jun 15th, 2006 at 11:53:38 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Ah, the debate tactics I've learned in the Era of Bush.

Conservatives want live babies so they can raise them to be dead soldiers. - George Carlin
by Drew J Jones (myfriends@thisispancakes.com) on Thu Jun 15th, 2006 at 11:55:06 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I'm sure you'd do a great job.

guaranteed to evoke a violent reaction from police is to challenge their right to "define the situation." --- David Graeber citing Marc Cooper
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Jun 15th, 2006 at 11:21:24 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Gracias.

Conservatives want live babies so they can raise them to be dead soldiers. - George Carlin
by Drew J Jones (myfriends@thisispancakes.com) on Thu Jun 15th, 2006 at 11:43:44 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I thought flattery would get me nowhere.

guaranteed to evoke a violent reaction from police is to challenge their right to "define the situation." --- David Graeber citing Marc Cooper
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Jun 15th, 2006 at 11:45:25 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Alright, I lied.  So I'm a sucker for flattery.

Conservatives want live babies so they can raise them to be dead soldiers. - George Carlin
by Drew J Jones (myfriends@thisispancakes.com) on Thu Jun 15th, 2006 at 11:48:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]

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