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If you or I had made comments like his "stay the course" one about any group of people in the world, we would be troll-rated immediately.  The silence was deafening.

What are you talking about?
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Thu Jun 29th, 2006 at 05:13:44 AM EST
[ Parent ]
This:

Americans are poor losers (I'm an American) who have a hard time improvising when things go bad (witness Vietnam or Iraq).  Instead they 'stay the course' right into disaster.


Conservatives want live babies so they can raise them to be dead soldiers. - George Carlin
by Drew J Jones (myfriends@thisispancakes.com) on Thu Jun 29th, 2006 at 03:26:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Maybe it's because criticism against one's own group (see: "I'm an American") doesn't get people as fired up as criticism against other groups of people? Not that it's necessarily different (see: "das juden!"), mind you.

I haven't been reading this thread anyways, hence my silence was deafening through absentia.

by Alex in Toulouse on Thu Jun 29th, 2006 at 03:33:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Perhaps, but I think that rings a bit hollow due to inconsistency.

Conservatives want live babies so they can raise them to be dead soldiers. - George Carlin
by Drew J Jones (myfriends@thisispancakes.com) on Thu Jun 29th, 2006 at 03:35:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I don't know, how would you react to my saying: the French are arrogant pricks (I'm French), who rarely live up to the human-rights and environmental blabla ideals they pretend to hold dear (witness nuclear testing or Afghanistan).
by Alex in Toulouse on Thu Jun 29th, 2006 at 03:41:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]
You troll!

guaranteed to evoke a violent reaction from police is to challenge their right to "define the situation." --- David Graeber citing Marc Cooper
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Jun 29th, 2006 at 03:43:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]
How dare you, young man?

In anticipation: how dare you dare my how dare you? (one of my favourite lines from a Leslie Nielsen movie, can't remember which one).

by Alex in Toulouse on Thu Jun 29th, 2006 at 03:46:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I would react by saying, "But, Alex, you seem like such a great person."

Conservatives want live babies so they can raise them to be dead soldiers. - George Carlin
by Drew J Jones (myfriends@thisispancakes.com) on Thu Jun 29th, 2006 at 04:04:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Hum. I'm not sure that that would get troll-rated if made by someone else about their own country. If you felt strongly it was trolling you could have troll-rated it: you're a member of the community and an American.

I didn't see it anyway: I've paid very little attention to world cup threads. I don't think I would have troll-rated it anyway: sighed slightly and ignored it. I see no reason to doubt that he is American, in which case I'm not in much of a position to troll rate him for his opinions of his own country. It'd be like people troll-rating me for saying how obsessed with ridiculous  middle class competition the Irish are.

by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Thu Jun 29th, 2006 at 03:37:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I am pondering whether to troll-rate you for accusing the Irish middle class of being obsessed with competition and hiding your slander behind a hypothetical clause.

guaranteed to evoke a violent reaction from police is to challenge their right to "define the situation." --- David Graeber citing Marc Cooper
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Jun 29th, 2006 at 03:39:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Oh it was a comment in a world cup thread and not here. So I must had read it myself. My reaction: none!! Maybe it's because I don't react to sweeping declarations that people make about their own country, though maybe I should (again, the "das juden" episode in WWII comes to mind).
by Alex in Toulouse on Thu Jun 29th, 2006 at 03:44:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Anyone taking a comment in a World Cup thread at face value is just looking for a fight.

guaranteed to evoke a violent reaction from police is to challenge their right to "define the situation." --- David Graeber citing Marc Cooper
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Jun 29th, 2006 at 03:47:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Just to provide a little broader context for this, the full quote and following comments can be found here.  Drew just pulled a portion
Bottom line: the U.S. team is made up spoiled brats who never face tough competition until World Cup time.  Americans are poor losers (I'm an American) who have a hard time improvising when things go bad (witness Vietnam or Iraq).  Instead they 'stay the course' right into disaster.

If this "American" wants to label himself as a poor loser, that's fine, but it seems disingenuous of some of the comments that seemed to support his admission of poorly losing, to include the US soccer team, US troops in Vietnam, US troops in Iraq, and evidently Americans as a group.

I coupled this comment with another seemingly negative comment regarding Americans,

As I read this debate, no one has yet challenged the notion of why one should need a large military, even if it is democratically decided to have such a thing.

Either it is, as Colman surmises, {(my addendum for clarification) Americans want}a fix for the unemployment figures, or it is, as I surmise, absofuckinglutely megolamaniac stupidity, unfit for the 3rd millennium.

And just to dispense with the comments that it's different if they are posted by someone who belongs to the country, this person does not claim to be an American.  And there was not a peep pointing out that the postulated alternatives obviously do not include the rationale upon which Americans are making their decisions.  But once again there was deafening silence--nay, acutally support!

But as Drew suggests, the troll comments come when an American might defend these two points (yes a defense with sarcasm), which I made and you can read the following comments.  Now of course there are comments, which consist of attacks on these comments being those of a troll, and a defense that the troll is not a troll, but just someone so dumb as to identify the challenge for the erudite.  So they are not just comments you missed on a football thread, they are not just comments made by an "American" criticizing his country--make comments defending even truly ludicrous comments about America on this site, and get "trolled".

by wchurchill on Fri Jun 30th, 2006 at 01:22:24 AM EST
[ Parent ]
wchurchill, how many real troll-ratings have you personally received in months of deabting here -- in debates where you take a consistently contrary view to almost everyone else on the site?

I can recall giving you a 2, long ago, which is not equivalent to calling you a troll. This may have happened twice, I don't remember. It was when your comments were yelled in capitals and included many expletives.

You know perfectly well that you come here in a contrarian spirit. You have in fact benefitted from a great deal of tolerance, and a lot of users have joined in discussion with you (though most have tired of it). You have not been insulted and called a troll at every turn, nor have you been extensively troll-rated, as far as I know. Don't whine that you're being picked on.

PS Note to you and Drew: your complaint about the "staying the course" comment is pure, 100% American-exceptionalist BS. Stick it where I think and smoke it.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Fri Jun 30th, 2006 at 11:47:31 AM EST
[ Parent ]

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