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You touched one of my hobby-horses on ET :-)

The formerly East Bloc new EU members, if you look up a map, are at the centre of Europe. (Depending on which method and definitions you use, the geometric centre of Europe lies somewhere in Lithuania, in Slovakia or in that mentioned part of Ukraine that was earlier in Czechoslovakia.) You learnt to think of them as East because while the Iron Curtain was in place, it was all just the East Bloc for you. Here however, the region was always called Central Europe (in native languages). Since 1989, on international fora, the compromise term Central-Eastern Europe (CEE) or alternatively Eastern-Central Europe (ECE) has been adopted. (But some even accepted to use Central Europe, for example there is the Central European University, a creation of George Soros with English as teaching language that currently resides in Budapest.)

The geographic ordering also makes some cultural sense: the EU presently extends to the rough border between Catholicism/Protestantism and Eastern Orthodox Christianity. This cultural aspect seems to have counted more in historical relations than shared Slavic language/ancestry (Slovakians, Czechs, Poles are Slavs too but are (were) Catholic), though the latter did count too (say, during WWII).

As for Slovakia, as I mentioned in the diary, there was that Eastern region which was given to the Soviet Union after WWII, and is now Ukraine -- that region was Orthodox majority, but some Orthodox remained in Slovakia too. The Orthodox Carpathian Slavs are often also recognised as a separate ethnicity, the Carpatho-Rusyns.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Tue Jun 13th, 2006 at 05:42:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Here is a map of the Rusyn (alternatively: Ruthenian) areas:

Note: most of the areas outside Ukraine are thinly populated areas in the Carpathian mountains, probably more non-Rusyns live in surrounded/close-by cities than the number of all Rusyns.

There were also some post-WWII converts in Western Slovakia. Ask your friend where she comes from. (Better yet, if she is progressive and wouldn't be bothered by the high frequency of atheists here, invite her to post on ET!)

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Tue Jun 13th, 2006 at 05:51:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Note that the map is of Ruthenian areas circa 1910, not currently. The Ruthenians areas in Poland were ethnically cleansed after WWII in Operation Wisla (Vistula), that followed on and overlapped with a really vicious civil war between the Polish (Catholic) and Ruthenian (Uniate) populations in the area - lots of tit for tat massacres of villages by both sides. The Ruthenians were scattered all over Poland, mostly in the former German areas.
by MarekNYC on Wed Jun 14th, 2006 at 10:39:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]
That would be an interesting diary subject, should some anniversary come up!

(BTW sorry I should have pointed out it is an 1910 map, but I couldn't find a newer one.)

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Wed Jun 14th, 2006 at 03:03:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]
There were also some post-WWII converts in Western Slovakia. Ask your friend where she comes from. (Better yet, if she is progressive and wouldn't be bothered by the high frequency of atheists here, invite her to post on ET!)

I'll see if I can give it a try - there is this language constraint - I know it can be overcome. And she is shy.

I will try to convince two extremely intelligent people I know to come have a look.

One is Ukrainian, having lived for a long time in Armenia. The other is Armenian, having lived a long time in Lebanon.

They have had an incredibly eventful life, what with earthquakes, bombs, regime collapse, and what have you. They have a real world outlook.

Thanks so much for the Carpathian map. Looks like it is at a crossroads of many influences. Must be interesting to visit. And read about.

by balbuz on Wed Jun 14th, 2006 at 12:04:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

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