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I think it's misleading to talk about war in this way. War, traditionally, means a series of set-piece battles between uniformed soldiers.
I disagree. We have words for all these nuances: guerrilla war, militia, troops can be described as regular or irregular, we have insurgency... It's still war, and "fourth generation warfare" has been with us for 200 years at least. The problem is that sometimes one of the sides is waging the wrong kind of war. As in
We cannot win in Iraq, Hersh said. "We have no intel. We can't find the insurgents. When they bomb something, we only know about it afterward. We can't figure them out. Someone said, 'We play chess, they play Go.' All we can do is lose. All we can do is bomb."
Since Napoleon was kicked out of Spain in 1808-12 it's become increasingly clear that armies cannot beat guerrillas unless they are prepared to massacre the local population.

Nothing is 'mere'. — Richard P. Feynman
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Jul 25th, 2006 at 09:33:19 AM EST
[ Parent ]
It's worth noting that all of the definitions are determined by the stronger side. One man's terrorist is another's freedom fighter etc etc.

I ask for better definitions as it seems to me thatthe current ones allow the powerful to become deluded about their objectives and thus apply inappropriate responses, ie massacre of populations.

They need to understand when it is more effective to talk rather than shoot. Which, I guess also implies taking into account of cultural dispositions etc.

I still stand by the point that insurgencies and campaigns against terrorism are not the same as war and so cannot be compared. How those involved prefer to describe them is immaterial.

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Tue Jul 25th, 2006 at 09:38:34 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Well, if someone decides to deploy the army, it becomes a war even if on the other side there are only insurgents, or terrorists, or simply civilians. I don't think it makes sense to describe Israel's actions in Lebanon as other than "war".

Nothing is 'mere'. — Richard P. Feynman
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Jul 25th, 2006 at 09:45:26 AM EST
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I accept your point. Unfortunately, by designating it a war like any other, the IDF have deluded themselves into believing this is a classic war against a nation state and are behaving accordingly.

It may be a war by current definitions, but as it is not against a nation state their conduct of it is strategically stupid, "disproportionate" and ulitmately self-defeating.

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Tue Jul 25th, 2006 at 09:54:04 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I ask for better definitions as it seems to me thatthe current ones allow the powerful to become deluded about their objectives and thus apply inappropriate responses, ie massacre of populations.

I think Richard Lyon described it best down below - winning against guerillas is the business of empire.

It has been done in the past, so it could certainly be done again. But the requirement for success seems to be massive brutality that would make any modern regime, even Bush's, look angelic.

And yes, you need a standing army, and local volunteers/conscripts.

The idea that war is a series of pitched battles has only really been true in exceptional situations. The battles are the visible part of a more organic process which relies on diplomacy, economics, politics, and espionage - anything to gain an advantage.

Stopping an insurgency doesn't just require regime change, it requires culture change. You can only really do it by decapitation (sometimes literal) of the insurgency's leadership, followed up by repression of the followers.

Politically today this is unacceptable. So it's very likely impossible for any nominally accountable democracy to beat an insurgency by violence alone.

But is it a war? It's not in the traditional sense - not just because there are no pitched battles, but because wars traditionally end either when armies are destroyed or leaders are killed.

When you don't have an army to fight, and you don't have a single leader in command to take out, it's hard to know whether you've won or not.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Tue Jul 25th, 2006 at 08:02:34 PM EST
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I would like to point out that to the best of my knowledge this is how the war in Chechnya has been 'won' by Russia, by massive depopulation.

I have got no good sources, but I remember numbers pointing towards only a third of the prewar population now lives in Chechnya.

A vote for PES is a vote for EPP! A vote for EPP is a vote for PES! Support the coalition, vote EPP-PES in 2009!

by A swedish kind of death on Wed Jul 26th, 2006 at 08:20:54 AM EST
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