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Apparently the EU could get at least 5000 litres of bioethanol per hectare by growing sugar beet?

Afew, you knew quite a lot about the EU's sugar regime. Can you redo the maize calculation with sugar beet instead?

Nothing is 'mere'. — Richard P. Feynman

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sun Jul 9th, 2006 at 11:39:27 AM EST
I haven't looked into it, (the ethanol calculation), but I can try. I'll dig some stuff out about sugar beet production.
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Sun Jul 9th, 2006 at 11:49:20 AM EST
[ Parent ]
If the EU turned its entire sugar beet production into biofuels, what impact would it have on the sugar regime? Did you ever get around to writing that diary on sugar reform?

Nothing is 'mere'. — Richard P. Feynman
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sun Jul 9th, 2006 at 11:51:48 AM EST
[ Parent ]
according to this FAO site chart

http://www.fao.org/docrep/007/j3877e/j3877e12.htm

Europe sugar production 2004/5 was 21.8 million tons

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Sun Jul 9th, 2006 at 12:06:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I gave up on sugar reform, there was just too much stuff to cover to write about it properly.

I understood the first question and will try to reply.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Sun Jul 9th, 2006 at 12:07:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]
If the EU turned all its sugar beet production into ethanol, there would be no sugar regime and we would have to import, at a rough guess, 15m t of refined sugar a year. Or do without sugar and be healthier. (What would I do for jam?)

If the EU were to do this, however, this is the ethanol reckoning:

Total sugar beet area 2005-6 = 2.1m ha (so about a third of maize)

2.1m x 5000 l = 10.5 bn litres ethanol

10.5 bn x 10 (10%) = 105bn litres E10.

To be compared to above calculation of 164bn litres petrol used in EU-25.

Sven's FAO figure above gives a rough idea of sugar exports, 21 - 15 = 6 million tonnes. About 28%. Supposing 28% were turned into ethanol:

105 x 28% = 29.4bn litres E10 (out of approx consumption of 164bn l)

So sugar beet isn't a magic bullet either.

Also, from a sustainability point of view, it's as bad or worse than maize. Irrigation, pollution, soil destruction, etc. And beets can't be grown just anywhere -- they need good quality alluvial soils.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Sun Jul 9th, 2006 at 01:13:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]
According to the US Department of Agriculture (PDF), wheat and barley areas in the EU-25 are 13.4M ha (wheat) and 23M ha (barley). At 2500 l/ha (wheat) and 1000 l/ha (barley), converting the entire wheat and barley production into ethanol feedstock one would obtain  33.5bn l of wheat ethanol and 23bn l of barley ethanol.

Conclusion:
EU petrol consumption: 164 Gl (gigalitre: billion litres) per year.
EU sugarbeet ethanol: up to 10.5 Gl
EU maize ethanol: up to 19 Gl
EU wheat ethanol: up to 33.5 Gl
EU barley ethanol: up to 23 Gl

Total bioethanol at current land use: 86 Gl (58 Gl petrol energy equivalent)

Nothing is 'mere'. — Richard P. Feynman

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sun Jul 9th, 2006 at 03:51:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Here are the EU stats up to 2004. The US figures are for 2003, I think. But that doesn't greatly change the overall picture. Using all the agricultural area occupied by maize, sugar beet, wheat, and barley would supply approx E30 for current petrol consumption. So presumably it would take one third of that area to produce enough E10, which is the target the Commission is talking about for some later date.

Until second-generation biofuels are fully researched, confirmed, and brought on-stream, it doesn't look as if first-generation fuels are going to be able to make a contribution. As far as ethanol goes, anyway.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Sun Jul 9th, 2006 at 04:39:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]
There are two questions: is the goal of reaching 6% market share for biofuels by 2010 realistic, and what should be the policy for 2010-2020 (and is the goal of using 20% biofuels [see the "reasons reappraised"] realistic?).

An equal volume of E6 has (94% petrol, 6% ethanol) has 98% the energy of petrol. 164 Gl energy equivalent petrol corresponds to 157 Gl petrol and 10 Gl ethanol. This is the entire sugarbeet ethanol potential, or 12% of the total (sugarbeet, maize, wheat, barley) ethanol potential.

Nothing is 'mere'. — Richard P. Feynman

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sun Jul 9th, 2006 at 05:03:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The total petrol consumption of the EU-25 is given by Eurostat  (for 2002) as
5,242,160 terajoules
Taking the energy content of a litre of petrol at 32 megajoules, we get approx.
164, 000 M litres of petrol consumed in the EU-25.
Eurostat also gives   6,635,686 TJ diesel and 40,052 TJ biofuels.

This page gives energy densities of 10.9KWh/l for diesel and 9.7Kwh/l for gasoline, that is 39 MJ/l for diesel and 34.9 MJ/l for gasoline [10% off your 32 MJ/l]. The EU's transportation fuel consumption in 2002 was, therefore, 150 Gl petrol and 170 Gl diesel. Biodiesel has, according to Worldwatch, a much lower yield than bioethanol: 1000 l/ha for rapeseed is about the same as the yield for barley. It seems that to reach a 6% share of biofuels, it is most efficient in terms of land use to concentrate on bioethanol. 6% of the 2002 consumption is 715074 TJ or 32 Gl ethanol (@ 6.1KWh/ = 22 MJ/l). This is about the entire EU25 wheat ethanol potential, or  37% of the total ethanol potential.

The transportation fuel problem needs to be tackled on the demand side.

Nothing is 'mere'. — Richard P. Feynman

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sun Jul 9th, 2006 at 05:42:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Energy density of petrol: there are many differing statistics given. I even saw one that was > 40 Mj/l.

I took 32 Mj/l from Wikipedia. It corresponds to ethanol at 21 Mj/l, or approx 66% of petrol, which is the proportion given pretty much everywhere.

I don't think a few % matter anyway. The EU doesn't have the spare capacity to produce enough ethanol. (See my soon-to-come comment below). (Some useful biodiesel mainly for farming and maybe public vehicle fleets is possible). So I agree with your conclusion.

I don't think, btw, that it is useful or necessary to show our reckonings in a submission to the Consultation. We need to thresh things out enough to be sure of what we think, and that we have a solid basis.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Mon Jul 10th, 2006 at 03:12:24 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Energy density of petrol: there are many differing statistics given. I even saw one that was > 40 Mj/l.

From the link I found on energy density:

The numbers compiled here varied a bit - the definition of gasoline and diesel is not precise; Gasoline and diesel fuel are a mixture of about 100 different molecules who's ratios vary from batch to batch. Diesel fuel should be very similar to gasoline.
Which makes sense, there are lots of different fuel grades being given the same name.

Nothing is 'mere'. — Richard P. Feynman
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Jul 10th, 2006 at 06:26:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]
BTW, did you see a dependable statistic anywhere for total EU petrol (diesel, biofuel) consumption in litres rather than diverse energy units? I haven't found one.

(And Eurostat keeps giving me problems with its design your own tables software, it tells me it's downloading when it isn't, or it sends empty pages, or it does test redirects that go nowhere... :{ )

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Mon Jul 10th, 2006 at 04:50:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Energy units are better, because to compare different fuels you need to use homogeneous units, and what matters in the end is calorific capacity.

Nothing is 'mere'. — Richard P. Feynman
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Jul 10th, 2006 at 05:24:24 AM EST
[ Parent ]

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