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I think Migeru's right, and I generally think there is no great interest in 1st-generation (for the EU) beyond fixing a CAP/WTO problem for the next ten years.

Unfortunately, for all I have read, it has only been over a fortnight and there are a large number of aspects I have simply laid aside for lack of time. (Or expert knowledge). So I don't have all the numbers on every crop at my fingertips.

If, by a factor of three, you mean multiplying the energy yield from the sun (not, of course, as a result of adding energy inputs such as more fertilser) by three, I think I can say it's not on in any foreseeable future, and not even with GMs. (GMs generally offer pretty modest advantages, linked of course to chemicals etc). A GM (or X-breed) that would suddenly triple its energy storage without increase of non-solar energy inputs would be a revolution we would be hearing about, and hearing about, imho. Its first application would surely be food, which brings us back to Point A: we should be producing food rather than vehicle fuel.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Sun Jul 9th, 2006 at 12:03:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]
.. yes You are right.

But I wil not be so sure with algae or with some oter very siple organism..wher the quantity of area needed will be much more lower. this is, the crops we are talking take a lot of space per unit energy.

So... I think that if you number are rigth.. I will be for looking into these alternative organisms...

By the way.. it wa actually close to 15 % a factor of 3 plus doubling efficiency of cars makes it 90%...so enough for a very goof fleat.

A pleasure

I therefore claim to show, not how men think in myths, but how myths operate in men's minds without their being aware of the fact. Levi-Strauss, Claude

by kcurie on Sun Jul 9th, 2006 at 06:02:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I found this page on algae. It contains calculations similar to the ones we have been engaging in regarding fuel use and land use.

Nothing is 'mere'. — Richard P. Feynman
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sun Jul 9th, 2006 at 07:00:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Sorry, wrong link. Try this one instead.

Nothing is 'mere'. — Richard P. Feynman
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sun Jul 9th, 2006 at 07:01:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]
..so it seems second generation is certainly a possibility.

Do we include it in the input?

A pleasure

I therefore claim to show, not how men think in myths, but how myths operate in men's minds without their being aware of the fact. Levi-Strauss, Claude

by kcurie on Mon Jul 10th, 2006 at 04:45:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Yes, as R+D. But not before 2010 and possibly only on an experimental basis (though the EU could fund large-scale experiments) in 2010-2020.

Nothing is 'mere'. — Richard P. Feynman
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Jul 10th, 2006 at 05:23:29 AM EST
[ Parent ]

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