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Hey, I'm having an incredibly hard time reading Keynes. When are you next in London?

Nothing is 'mere'. — Richard P. Feynman
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Jul 11th, 2006 at 11:45:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]
My father and I will land on July 22nd at Gatwick, sometime around 8:00AM, so I think we'll be into London at around 9:30, although I've never travelled outside of the US, so I don't know how long the process takes.

Just out of curiosity, what are you having trouble with?  The General Theory is a bit of a pain in the ass to read at many points, so trust me when I say that you're not alone.

Conservatives want live babies so they can raise them to be dead soldiers. - George Carlin

by Drew J Jones (myfriends@thisispancakes.com) on Tue Jul 11th, 2006 at 12:30:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]
He writes for professional economists of the 1930's so a lot of the jargon and underlying conceptual framework is alien to me.

Nothing is 'mere'. — Richard P. Feynman
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Jul 11th, 2006 at 12:34:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Ah, come on.  Half the fun of reading Keynes lies in figuring out what the hell he was trying to say with all of these oddball terms.  (Or at least that's the case for econ geeks like me.)  Part of the problem with Keynes's book lies in his need to define terms very precisely, so that there is no doubt as to the meaning.  The problem with that is that it can sometimes make the book very dry and difficult to follow.

I think you'll probably find this helpful, as well, since, unlike most economists, Krugman knows how to write.  Krugman describes the book's mission as it relates to some of the field's history during the Classicalist period, and context is almost always useful.

Any jargon or other bits in particular?

Conservatives want live babies so they can raise them to be dead soldiers. - George Carlin

by Drew J Jones (myfriends@thisispancakes.com) on Tue Jul 11th, 2006 at 12:45:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I'll get back to you with a diary sooner or later. Maybe I should read Marshall before Keynes?

Nothing is 'mere'. — Richard P. Feynman
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Jul 11th, 2006 at 12:49:52 PM EST
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Perhaps not so much Marshall.  Pigou might be worth reading afterwards -- no need to do so beforehand -- because he was one of Keynes's intellectual opponents, along with Hayek.  If you can find anything, I'd recommend some of Milton Friedman's work from the era, since I believe he was a young lecturer at the time, and the book was written back when Chicago was solidly in the Keynesian camp.  Friedman is also a decent writer.

Conservatives want live babies so they can raise them to be dead soldiers. - George Carlin
by Drew J Jones (myfriends@thisispancakes.com) on Tue Jul 11th, 2006 at 12:54:22 PM EST
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Any idea which of Hayek's books I should read after "The Road to Serfdom"? Or should I move on Friedman?
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Tue Jul 11th, 2006 at 01:18:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Are you ready to diary "The Road to Serfdom"?

Nothing is 'mere'. — Richard P. Feynman
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Jul 11th, 2006 at 01:19:55 PM EST
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No: probably Thursday, maybe tomorrow.
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Tue Jul 11th, 2006 at 01:20:35 PM EST
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You're not missing much on Hayek after The Road.  Friedman's Capitalism & Freedom would probably be an enjoyable read.  I've never completed Monetary History of the US, but it also seemed like a decent book during my limited exposure.  The former is obviously more of a political book, though.  Monetary History is sort of the Bible to Monetarism and much of modern monetary policy.

Conservatives want live babies so they can raise them to be dead soldiers. - George Carlin
by Drew J Jones (myfriends@thisispancakes.com) on Tue Jul 11th, 2006 at 01:33:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Any jargon or other bits in particular?

The biggest problem is when he drops "the marginal this equals the marginal blah" as if it were obvious what he's talking about, and that the equality must hold.

Nothing is 'mere'. — Richard P. Feynman

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Jul 11th, 2006 at 12:51:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Take this as an example: In a "perfectly competitive market," firms simply produce up to the point that price is equal to marginal cost -- that is, the last unit just barely pays for itself, and production then stops, because profit has obviously been maximised.  Everyone has a tendency to take the jargon and lose the meaning, because it sounds so mechanical.  Keynes, as you noted, wasn't concerned with that, because he was writing for his fellow economists.

Which chapter are you on?

Conservatives want live babies so they can raise them to be dead soldiers. - George Carlin

by Drew J Jones (myfriends@thisispancakes.com) on Tue Jul 11th, 2006 at 01:04:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]
7 or 8.

It was just a general comment, nothing specific. I'll have to read the whole thing once and then once again with pen and paper.

One of the things that strikes me (see the chapter of the "choice of units") is Keynes' decision to monetarize everything in order to make things quantifiable. He has a justification for it, and he's aware that he loses something, but he charges ahead nonetheless. I think I should write a diary just on that, because it ties in with much of the criticism of economics on this site.

Nothing is 'mere'. — Richard P. Feynman

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Jul 11th, 2006 at 01:10:24 PM EST
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Agreed.  Don't hold it against him to too harsh a degree, though.  The intuition is the real treasure in Keynes books.

Conservatives want live babies so they can raise them to be dead soldiers. - George Carlin
by Drew J Jones (myfriends@thisispancakes.com) on Tue Jul 11th, 2006 at 01:16:04 PM EST
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I don't hold it against him: it's great. Typical of a mathematician: if the problem at hand is intractable, tackle a related problem that is tractable.

Maybe I'll diary my view of his "choice of units" tonight.

Nothing is 'mere'. — Richard P. Feynman

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Jul 11th, 2006 at 01:18:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I'm looking forward to it.

Conservatives want live babies so they can raise them to be dead soldiers. - George Carlin
by Drew J Jones (myfriends@thisispancakes.com) on Tue Jul 11th, 2006 at 01:21:54 PM EST
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Much of that, also, is an effort to get his colleagues on board, basically saying, "Look, I'm not an idiot.  Here's the mathematics, and here's how I arrived at it."

Conservatives want live babies so they can raise them to be dead soldiers. - George Carlin
by Drew J Jones (myfriends@thisispancakes.com) on Tue Jul 11th, 2006 at 01:17:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

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