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Anyway, that was 1.5 billion years ago and what is really fascinating is that the "spent fuel" (the radionuclides) only moved a few metres in all that time.  

by noting that radioactivity migrated through the proposed Yucca Mountain permanent storage site in the US--allegedly dry and impermeable--in less than 40 years.  

The good fortune of the Gabon site cannot be taken for granted.  

The Fates are kind.

by Gaianne on Tue Aug 15th, 2006 at 07:31:44 AM EST
[ Parent ]
That would mean that 40 years ago, spent fuel was placed in Yucca Mountain.  Which turns out not to be the case.
by ustenzel on Thu Aug 17th, 2006 at 09:48:06 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Radioactive material was in Yucca Mountain.  No protective casks like with spent fuel.  

The point here is the migration rate.

Once the cask breaks down--which takes some years--THEN the 40-yr number comes into play.  

A reminder:  his stuff is dangerous for tens of thousands to millions of years--longer than the entire span of civilized human activity.  

I frankly do not believe these problems can be solved--they are beyond human scale.  

The outlook for single-celled organisms is GOOD!

The Fates are kind.

by Gaianne on Fri Aug 18th, 2006 at 10:40:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Well, what radioactive material was there?!  I'm reasonably sure, nobody brought any radwaste to Yucca Mountain 40 years ago.

Secondly, stop just making up huge numbers.  Reactor waste is dangerous for about 300-1000 years, depending on the reactor type and how much reprocessing is done.  After that, the residue is less dangerous than the uranium ore it was made from.  The world is full of uranium ore in no special repository, and civilization did not fall because of that.

You don't believe my numbers?  Well, the half live of the dangerous components (Sr-90 and Cs-137) is about 30 years.  You're invited to name the oh-so-dangerous isotopes with half lives of about 100.000 years.  Note that even the transuranics, which any sane civilization would use as energy source instead of burying them, are already included in the above figure, see http://www.nuclearfaq.ca/cnf_sectionE.htm

1000 years are not beyond human timescale.  The Egytian pyramids are six time older, and one could expect us to build better repositories today.

by ustenzel on Sat Aug 19th, 2006 at 06:31:39 AM EST
[ Parent ]
better repositories... is duration the only quality of the egyptian pyramyds?


Rien n'est gratuit en ce bas monde. Tout s'expie, le bien comme le mal, se paie tot ou tard. Le bien c'est beaucoup plus cher, forcement. Celine
by UnEstranAvecVueSurMer (holopherne ahem gmail) on Sat Aug 19th, 2006 at 02:43:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I made a point about time scales.  You made none at all.

Face it: had the pharaohs disposed of reprocessing waste in the pyramids, we'd only be able to nitice it if we knew what to look for.  The pyramids could have been a very good repository.

by ustenzel on Sat Aug 19th, 2006 at 04:25:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Plutonium has a half-life of 50 k years, and I notice you don't mention strontium.  

Oh--you expect that would be reprocesses out.  Well, in the US it is not, and if you did, then you would have a messy reprocessing plant to deal with.  You say it is clean but that is not reality:  The history of these plants--and its no surprise to anyone familiar with how industry really operates--is that there are always leaks, mishaps and accidents.  

The pyramids were breached in antiquity.  The US did not yet even exist.  So much for containment.  

The Fates are kind.

by Gaianne on Sat Aug 19th, 2006 at 08:17:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Oh boy, now I got into the enviable position of having to educate an American.  How nice...

  • Half life of Pu-239 is 24000 years, the other isotopes are shorter lived.
  • Did you know that the chemical symbol for strontium is Sr?  It has a half life of 28 years.
  • Even without reprocessing, 1000 year old waste is already less dangerous than naturally occuring uranium ore.  You didn't try to read the canadian nuclear FAQ, did you?
  • Pyroprocessing is not messy.  You didn't try to read up on the IFR, did you?
  • You  still didn't tell what radioactive substance was placed in Yucca Mountain 40 years ago.
  • We don't need to defend waste against thieves, because there is no value in it.  We defend against the elements, and the pyramids did that very well.
by ustenzel on Sun Aug 20th, 2006 at 05:20:37 AM EST
[ Parent ]

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