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but how do you label the narrative underlining the peaceful protests of the anti-war movement?

Well, first off, the antiwar protesters were not promoting the use of violence...

Secondly, everyone I know who protested did not do it out of some selfless pacifism but because they knew Bush was lying and we could not accept lies.  What's the narrative that values facts over lies?  You tell me.

Lastly,

Here's what I wrote in my diary:

Maybe the idea of Human Rights is also a mythology, or at least a matter of faith.  You can't prove things like souls and dignity.  But there is a demonstrable connection between the upholding of human rights and peace, dignity, prosperity and progress.  And since I know of no one who wants to be bombed, forced to live like an animal or in fear, I'm going to say that upholding human rights is not a matter of faith but of practicality.

Like I said, more than anything, my answer to all this is that I don't know.  I just don't know.  But if I were to pretend I see no blaring connection between those who profess their religion most loudly, and those who profess their patriotism most loudly, I'd be a liar.


Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. -Voltaire

by p------- on Fri Aug 4th, 2006 at 05:11:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Well, first off, the antiwar protesters were not promoting the use of violence...

True, but for me, the search for peace is an ideology, so if you reserve ideology for violence, you have to find another word :).

by Laurent GUERBY on Sat Aug 5th, 2006 at 02:10:35 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Pacifism might be an ideology, because it's still a power struggle between those who believe in violence and those who don't. Pacifism could never be forced on arms dealers without recourse to law, threats of prison and other state-sanctioned violence. Pacifism would be a uniquely paradoxical case, but unless someone can persuade the military complex to give up war and weapons development with a stern talking to over a cup of tea and a sandwich, some kind of enforcement would be necessary.

Marching for peace wouldn't be an ideology. As Migeru said, there could be all kinds of reasons for going on a march.

And Martin Kramer - a prominent neo-con with a jihadist mentality probably isn't be the best way to debunk Pape.

I like Pape's take on things. I don't know if he's right or not, but his ideas make much more sense to me than neocon jihadist clash-of-civilisation fantasies do.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Sat Aug 5th, 2006 at 06:20:24 AM EST
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For the record, that's why I don't like your ideoly = violence definition.
by Laurent GUERBY on Sun Aug 6th, 2006 at 12:24:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]
but how do you label the narrative underlining the peaceful protests of the anti-war movement?

Well, first off, the antiwar protesters were not promoting the use of violence...

You know, I went to the Stop The War demonstration in London two weeks ago, and the front 1/3 of the demonstration was made up of people with Lebanase flags, mostly arab or muslim, but  there were sufficiently many Hezbollah flags taht it gave me the creeps and I left. I'm hesitant about going to today's demonstration demanding an immediate ceasefire (see the Breakfast). There are going to be even more angry arabs and muslims with "we are all Hezbollah" placards. I think Robert Fisk is right about a new 9/11 coming up.

Nothing is 'mere'. — Richard P. Feynman
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sat Aug 5th, 2006 at 04:24:55 AM EST
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