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I really want to agree that IP is not necessary for innovation.  And I really want to believe that handing out prizes will spur the level of innovation, research and development as IP.

I love Hayek's point you quote:

I doubt whether there exists a single great work of literature which we would not possess had the author been unable to obtain an exclusive copyright for it

But it does not cost (hundreds of?) millions of dollars to write Gravity's Rainbow.

Do you think, for example, that without the existence of IP/patents, all the medical drugs, machines, technology in general which were created in the last 100 years would in fact have been developed?  Would they have if some kind of "prize system" had been in place rather than the actual IP system?  (I am not asking skeptically.  I really don't have any idea myself.)

Truth unfolds in time through a communal process.

by marco (cowannar at gmail punkt com) on Thu Sep 21st, 2006 at 09:26:01 PM EST
An interesting data point is looking at what Bill Gates is doing in the drug research area. In short, he tries to have people doing research communicate openly their ideas and data sets. Why? Because in the patent-screwed world they don't and he thinks it costs a lot.

Why do we spend millions in drug research? May be it's just that the system is grossly inefficient. I've heard than R&D costs is 25% lawyers. And R&D costs are way smaller than marketing advertizing in the drug market.

An interesting point by Healthcare Economist:


The so-called genius awards (actually called the MacArthur Foundation fellows) are given to 25 individuals based on "their creativity, originality, and potential to be significant contributors in their fields."  Recipients receive $500,000 over five years with no strings attached.  One of the recipients which interests this blog is Victoria Hale (bio).  She is a pharmaceutical entrepreneur who started a non-profit drug company to treat third world diseases.  NPR's Marketplace ran an interview with Ms. Hale yesterday and below is an excerpt: [...]

I honnestly have very little doubt that entrepreneur and non-profit, plus government and prizes are vastly more efficient than the current system in the drug development area.

If you look at technology history, and personality of people doing the real work (see wikipedia and free software for recent examples, but they are others), I really doubt any single invention is due to IP, and I think we're missing many inventions (especially in software, some areas are just gigantic minefields even free software hero don't want to touch...).

by Laurent GUERBY on Fri Sep 22nd, 2006 at 05:21:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]
An interesting data point is looking at what Bill Gates is doing in the drug research area. In short, he tries to have people doing research communicate openly their ideas and data sets. Why? Because in the patent-screwed world they don't and he thinks it costs a lot.
Why doesn't Bill Gates apply that reasoning to software? Sheesh.

Those whom the Gods wish to destroy They first make mad. — Euripides
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Sep 22nd, 2006 at 05:39:44 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Here is one of Bill Gates comment on patents (1991, source: wikipedia):


If people had understood how patents would be granted when most of today's ideas were invented and had taken out patents, the industry would be at a complete standstill today...The solution is patenting as much as we can. A future startup with no patents of its own will be forced to pay whatever price the giants choose to impose. That price might be high. Established companies have an interest in excluding future competitors.

See the 2005 version of the comment :).

by Laurent GUERBY on Fri Sep 22nd, 2006 at 07:33:44 AM EST
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So the solution t whatever problem Bill Gates thinks he has is to patent as much as he can, which in his own words will "exclude future competitors" and put the industry "at a complete standstill".

Good thinking.

Those whom the Gods wish to destroy They first make mad. — Euripides

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Sep 22nd, 2006 at 07:36:18 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Hence the 2005 version:


...There are some new modern-day sort of communists who want to get rid of the incentive for musicians and moviemakers and software makers under various guises. They don't think that those incentives should exist... I'd be the first to say that the patent system can always be tuned...the United States has led...because we've had the best intellectual-property system.
by Laurent GUERBY on Fri Sep 22nd, 2006 at 07:45:47 AM EST
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Large companies are positively antisocial. Once they reach a certain size they change the way they operate and become focused on stifling competition more than on innovating.

Those whom the Gods wish to destroy They first make mad. — Euripides
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Sep 22nd, 2006 at 07:50:21 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Exactly, and those huge R&D numbers from big companies are just fake, a point I was making above.

There's a reason why european SME organisation CEA-PME is against software patents:


CEAPME (Confederation Europeenne des Associations des Petites et Moyennes Entreprises, European Union of Associations of Small and Medium Enterprises) assembles SME associations from EU member states, totalling a number of 500,000 SME members on its own and 1,600,000 together with two regular partner organisations. FFII is also an associate member of CEAPME. [...]

Ignored by the commission of course. European SME are not the general interest, USA mega-corpos are!

by Laurent GUERBY on Fri Sep 22nd, 2006 at 08:11:38 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Bell Labs was extremely unusual in the amount of in-house research it funded.

Those whom the Gods wish to destroy They first make mad. — Euripides
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Sep 22nd, 2006 at 08:16:17 AM EST
[ Parent ]
My previous job was at a small software company selling software for biotech labs. Among other things, for tracing of experiments, QA, and establishing proven dates for IP protection.
One important part of the budget for big-business drug development, is the delirial risk-aversion of occidental societies.
Drugs are over-tested, requirements for the ratio of effectiveness to adverse effects are crazy, and the big pharma takes accordingly big measures to guarantee they will have no legal liabilities for new products (see the Vioxx law suits). Aspirin couldn't be released to the market if it was invented today.
The former (and much contested) manager of the Pasteur Institute in Paris, Philippe Kourilsky, also argued that our "ethic" standards were also hindering developed countries: we stopped the development of cost-effective drugs because they had adverse effects that the florida widows would deem unacceptable, when these effects wouldn't be noticed by a malaria-infected kid in Africa.
So basically, we have become a society of old coward farts. May be a great civilization collapse would do us good ...

Pierre
by Pierre on Fri Sep 22nd, 2006 at 06:02:46 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Yes, I agree we're too comfortable in our opulence.

Those whom the Gods wish to destroy They first make mad. — Euripides
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Sep 22nd, 2006 at 06:06:02 AM EST
[ Parent ]
life-style drugs for the rich vs life-saving drugs for the poor indeed.

Remember the big pharmas sued the states that tried to copy life-saving drugs and are still doing so.

by Laurent GUERBY on Fri Sep 22nd, 2006 at 07:44:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Who pays the bill for drug clinical tests? Are drug companies really paying 100% of the cost? Or is it us through insurance and government support?

Also, aren't clinical tests indeed much more expensive for lifestyle drugs involving 5% better chance of this or that than life-saving drugs were you die if you don't take it anyway?

And I don't buy the aspirin argument, there was a somewhat recent large trial of people taking aspirin all day long, so obviously it would have been accepted today.

For Vioxx, it is established that the company deliberately withdrew critical data from the regulator, this is an horrible crime, nothing to do with the discussion here.

Last point, big pharmas will always prefer drugs you have to take until the end of your life rather than drugs that cure you. Economics 101, but often forgotten, another ill-effect of the current screwed-up IP system.

by Laurent GUERBY on Fri Sep 22nd, 2006 at 07:43:03 AM EST
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The bill is really for the big pharma, at least directly. Most of the "research" budget is actually big IT and staff spending to monitor the large scale trials. There are special contractors called CRO's "contract research organizations" who make a living on outsourcing this work.
Of course, since it's labeled "research", it can be partly funded by govn'mt funds for supporting research. In the EC, by Esprit/PCRD programs.

And I maintain that the FDA or EMEA criteria for safety are the same whether the drug is life saving or not. It is absolutely Kafkaian. For some "orphan" disease, they require proving the effect with double-blind trials involving more patients than you can enroll in a country the size of France, simply because there are too few people affected (they are now thinking about changing the workflow for those diseases...). And for drugs that only matter to the developing countries, they require proving that there are no interactions with prescription drugs for rich-world-only diseases.

The major preoccupation of the legislators and managers of approval agencies, is their own judicial security. So they build rules that nothing new can pass. They don't care for stuff that was approved before they took office: studies regarding aspirin are usually made by universities (big pharma doesn't pay to study public domain stuff) and since the universities have no hard cash, they make so-called meta-studies. By aggregating several other published studies primarily concerning other issues, but where patients were asked "do you regularly take aspirin", they can make findings by correlation which have a decent statistical meaning.

And if you look up most medical advisory text today, you really get a feeling that most physicians want to phase out aspirin because of oh-so-bad hemorraegic effects and stomach ulcers and-so-on...

Pierre

by Pierre on Fri Sep 22nd, 2006 at 10:21:34 AM EST
[ Parent ]

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