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Also (and please tell me where I'm going wrong), it would be a HUGE project employing many many engineers, companies, construction workers, etc...--helping them leap out of the oil business--not to mention materials design, structural design, and as the project developed new features, better equipment etc. would be brought on line.  It's what happened with cars, I think, and so (leaping wildly) would change our social nexuses (nexi?) at the same level.

(Facilities growing up around the windmills...new towns linked to renewable energy...transport to the next windmill guaranteed....)

A european project tying together the various groups in Europe (I think I'm still on topic), reducing emissions, creating better public transport, reducing plane travel, tying us physically to our neighbours (psychological difference between a journey on train and a journey by car or air)...

(So many technical issues to solve.  Massive injections of finance to universities, a boom in post-graduate work...)

Don't fight forces, use them R. Buckminster Fuller.

by rg (leopold dot lepster at google mail dot com) on Thu Sep 28th, 2006 at 08:09:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Moving from the academic to the practical, it makes much more sense to feed the rail network from the grid, and just build the wind farms wherever appropiate, feeding into the grid, which is well organised enough to give balance for local wind intermittance (ideally, using only regulated-power hydro and geothermal, pumped storage including air in abandoned mines, and other renewables with complementary intermittance, that is solar and other wind at a distance).

There are already a lot of wind farms in Spain, Denmark or Northern Germany. Here is the first of about two dozen I encountered en route to Berlin last week (hope it loads, trying out new image hosting site):



*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Fri Sep 29th, 2006 at 06:53:17 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I thought you were a fan of distributed power production...

How about transmission losses, by the way? And autonomy? And avoiding buying power at the marginal price, and having the possibility of feeding into the grid? Also, having the windmills spaced 2.5Km apart all along the line means the intermittency is largely averaged out.

Are there not practical advantages to such a scheme?

I'm still thinking there should be a windmill at the centre of every roundabout. And don't tell me it's ugly: in the US midwest people don't complain about their town's water towers.

Those whom the Gods wish to destroy They first make mad. -- Euripides

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Sep 29th, 2006 at 07:23:38 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I thought you were a fan of distributed power production...

Where have I contradicted that?

Also, having the windmills spaced 2.5Km apart all along the line means the intermittency is largely averaged out.

Maybe along the Transsiberian. For any railway within the EU, the distances are too small, thus intermittance will be a factor; though fortunately, it is just railways that have a quite large share of hydropower. Balancing across the entire railway network of the EU has no plus compared to balancing with the rest of the grid.

The advantage of putting turbines along the railway may be that they could be erected on railway right-of-way, sparing land purchase costs.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Fri Sep 29th, 2006 at 07:49:36 AM EST
[ Parent ]
We say "let's put windmills along railway tracks" and you say "it's more practical to build large wind farms".

In any case, the factor of at least 6 in energy consumption per passenger-km between planes and trains boggles the mind.

Those whom the Gods wish to destroy They first make mad. -- Euripides

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Sep 29th, 2006 at 08:09:43 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Windmills along railway lines is one large wind farm - and one along a line long enough for weather differences to balance each other is larger than any in existence. On my part I haven't specified the size of the wind farms. And anyway, distributed production and minigrids are two different things not necessarily bound to each other..

To recapitulate: because you have to consider territories affected in a half kilometre radius anyway, and because the site of the best wind is not necessarily along the railway, and because you have long transmission distances along the railway line anyway, railway-feeding wind farms might as well be built as normal wind farms somewhere near the line. Railways might opt to build wind farms, and use as much electricity as their wind farms produce, thus not having to spend on buying net electricity elsewhere, but that net zero would cover having to get electricity from the grid and sending surplus to the grid depending on intermittance. It's best if what they buy is regenerative energy too, and it's best anyway if non-rail users have regenerative sources too, so why not cut it short and create a wind-et-al-fed grid which feeds rail too.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Fri Sep 29th, 2006 at 04:12:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

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