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I have always thought that if there is no Iran war, the transition will be smooth with some elasticity in the demand when oil reaches around 90$ (present dollars) per barrel and then some more elasticity at 100$ for the physchological effect. So the wars are more geopolitical than energetic (although the energy factor is very very important)

You may wonder why 90$?

Jerome.. check the level of gas consumption in Europe as a function of price and compare it with the US without taxes. US should have a similar transition in relative terms (percentages) oif oil consumption as Europe when gas prices increase and reach the actual European level..diminishing miles driven and better mileage of new cars will follow in the US...At 90$ we should have around 4-5 $ dollars a galon in the US which will have a similar stagantion in gas consumption for transport as the one that Europe has now (at least in Spain the last two years)...and US transport consumes around 15 million barrels per day..a ten percent reduction is 1.5 million barrels per day...(a 20% per cent reduction can be expected at 100$-120$ with 5$-6$ a galon) just enough to offset other increases in the world for the next couple of years and keep the price around 90$-110$.

My forecast
2006 below 90 $
2007 close to 90$ but still below
2008 reach 90$ close to 100$ (we could reach 100$ here)
2009-2010 oil around 100$
2011-2012 stable around 100$
2013-2017 ...ready for the complete energy transition in transport????

A pleasure

I therefore claim to show, not how men think in myths, but how myths operate in men's minds without their being aware of the fact. Levi-Strauss, Claude

by kcurie on Mon Sep 4th, 2006 at 09:47:24 AM EST
The main reason consumption has been down in Europe in recent years has been thanks to the rollout of the new generation of diesel engines, which have allowed average fleet consumption to go down as a massive shift from petrol to diesel took place. This can only happen once.

Price increases have a much bigger impact in the US where they are not cushioned by the high level of tax (gas going from $2 to $3 is more painful than it going from $6 to $7) - and yet consumption is still increasing over there.

Much higher prices will be needed to actual get demand destruction, either from the poorest countries, or from the poorest in the West, at a time when demand is skyrocketing in emerging Asian economies and in subsidised petro-economies.

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes

by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Mon Sep 4th, 2006 at 10:58:47 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I can't find summary statistics on fossil fuels (non renewable oil, coal, ...) per country/year/usage (transportation, industry, heating...), do you have a link handy?

Also I've been surprised by wikipedia on enery storage, in particular by the claim that flywheels could store 130 Wh/kg and release at 90% efficiency. 1 cubic meter of water elevated 100 meters = 0.272 kWh. There's a collection of Fuel Cells described too.

My home consumption over the past 8 years has been on average 470 W, so 12 kWh per day, in other quantities a day of my electricity consumption is :


  • around 100 kg of flywheel or Zinc-air battery or Molten-carbonate German unit

  • 45 cube meters of water 100 meter high

  • 12 liters of methanol (and 30cmx30cmx30cm holding 5000 Toshiba batteries, don't show me the price :)

The last one is interesting. Any good source on price and Wh per kg of various energy storage facilities?

by Laurent GUERBY on Mon Sep 4th, 2006 at 05:06:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I can't find summary statistics on fossil fuels (non renewable oil, coal, ...) per country/year/usage (transportation, industry, heating...), do you have a link handy?

The US Energy Information Agency has a large amount of information. The specific country info is updated on an irregular basis so you'll get anything from very up to date figures to ones several years out of date, the amount and type of detail also varies pretty widely. Run your mouse over the map, you'll get drop down menus, click, and keep on clicking for details.

by MarekNYC on Mon Sep 4th, 2006 at 05:13:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

from here where expected 2025 numbers can be found as well.

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes

by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Mon Sep 4th, 2006 at 05:20:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I liked some of the latest piece by the Skepical optimist:


But I think way too many people (including libertarians, Republicans, and Democrats) categorize too much government spending as burning-the-money.  Well, to put it mildly: I disagree with that.  I am far less concerned with the money than I am with what we get for the money: if it's a bad investment, we should refuse to spend any money on it--neither taxpayer money, nor borrowed money; if, however, it's a good investment that falls into one of the green smiley-face boxes above, we should spend the money without hesitation, regardless of whether we finance that spending by taxing money from ourselves or by borrowing it from willing lenders.  I've said that a hundred times before, and I'll keep saying it again and again.

Looks like the debat2007 folks should read this guy blog more often.

Measuring gov debt without private and corporate debt and without measuring what we get for the government debt is idiotic.

May be we need to spread the word in France ...

by Laurent GUERBY on Mon Sep 4th, 2006 at 06:18:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Flywheels.

Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.
by Starvid (arvid.hallen at gmail.com) on Mon Sep 4th, 2006 at 05:50:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Many thanks for the link!

The BHE6 is about 7 Wh/kg (810 kg for 6 kWh) though. The 25 kWh model is at 17 Wh/kg (1429 kg). The matrix is a bit less efficient on this measure at 14 Wh/kg.

We're far from wikipedia claim here.

by Laurent GUERBY on Mon Sep 4th, 2006 at 06:31:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

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