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Are we nearly done with this? We really need to move on to a substantial response to the green paper!
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Fri Sep 8th, 2006 at 12:03:20 PM EST
We can always dump it.
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Fri Sep 8th, 2006 at 12:30:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Dump it? Why? I didn't mean it quite like that, just it's an (important) side issue we're spending  a lot of time on.

I suggest that we pick a cut-off date, call whatever we have then "done" and send it off.

by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Fri Sep 8th, 2006 at 12:36:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Consensus was we should make a point on translation with appended examples. I'll do it if I get enough stuff. Right now I have French (me), German and Hungarian (DoDo). I'm hoping Nomad will do Dutch and Migeru Spanish.

Next I asked for input on a good example of how the questionnaire excludes important policy options, from someone more clued-up than me.

I don't see this as a side issue. It's just as important to make a point about democracy in the EU as it is to talk about energy policy, and ET has everything to gain by moving forward on this ground.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Fri Sep 8th, 2006 at 12:45:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Fine. Forget I said anything.
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Fri Sep 8th, 2006 at 12:51:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]
As a cut-off date, I suggest Monday. There's no point in sending it before, anyway, with the weekend having already begun.
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Fri Sep 8th, 2006 at 12:54:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Absolutely. I've just done some edits.
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Fri Sep 8th, 2006 at 12:57:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Thanks. All good.
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Fri Sep 8th, 2006 at 01:02:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Will be at it this evening (Saturday). Right now, the weather is too sunny here, and I'm already online for too long. You woudn't want me to lose my carefully built up godly tan too soon, would you?
by Nomad on Sat Sep 9th, 2006 at 05:54:58 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Good Lord no. I think you mean godlike? (Godly means holy, saintly -- but I'm sure that's true of you too...) Perhaps, during the weeks of wandering in the northern forests, you were picked out by the Norse gods to channel the ethos of one of them? Thor? Baldr?
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Sat Sep 9th, 2006 at 07:27:34 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Loki.

Nothing is 'mere'. — Richard P. Feynman
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sat Sep 9th, 2006 at 07:31:59 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I was polite enough not to suggest that...
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Sat Sep 9th, 2006 at 07:45:21 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Well, you know me.

Nothing is 'mere'. — Richard P. Feynman
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sat Sep 9th, 2006 at 07:48:19 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Charming. I would that earlier attribute to Sven...
by Nomad on Sun Sep 10th, 2006 at 06:35:58 AM EST
[ Parent ]


Nothing is 'mere'. — Richard P. Feynman
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sun Sep 10th, 2006 at 06:52:31 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Feeling filthy again. No wonder this became an issue here. What a horrid, leading questionnaire. If I had made one like that during my editor years, it would've been shot down by the chiefs.

There are a few dodgy translation which don't sit comfortable - generally concerning translations of "market", "market-oriented" and "stakeholder". But that's 1) a field I'm not spectacularly knowledgeable about in the English language and 2) these are terms which are quite difficult to translate succinctly in Dutch anyway.

Aside from those minor translation issues and of course the ridiculous misleading options, the Dutch translation from the English is - as far as I can judge it - all right. No big fouls that I can see. The Dutch version is a bit wordy and pompous at places, but that way it does bring justice to the phrasing and meaning of the English original. It's however, obviously, a translation. In case this was written originally in Dutch the wording would likely have been more accessible.

Which brings me to the accessibility of this questionnaire. Aside the obstruction in language, and a preference in English, some of the options offered in the questionnaire are part of a terminology that may not be understandable for everyone. Using myself as an example here: I've zero clue on what is meant with the options offered in question 2:

Security Rules
Balancing Rules
Congestation Management
Etc

Nice - but what does it mean for the common Nomad?? These links are not clickable to a definition, no examples are given. All I get as background information is.... the Green Paper website. That surely helps.

Do I need to have a degree in economics before I can participate in the questionnaire? I think not.

Lastly, afew, my round of compliments (yet again) for such a nice piece of work. Although even our limited effort may not be result in turning the GP consultation completely mood, by sending it to the top I hope to deliver a strong signal that all is not well in Brussels with communicating to EU citizens who demand a transparant, accessible governance in Europe. You've my name on the list, if you need it. Also, do we already have the official European Tribune e-mail address as kcurie suggested in your other diary?

by Nomad on Sun Sep 10th, 2006 at 07:14:12 AM EST
[ Parent ]
The Spanish version is ok. It avoids false friends and literal translations and doesn't read clumsy at all.

Nothing is 'mere'. — Richard P. Feynman
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sun Sep 10th, 2006 at 07:26:45 AM EST
[ Parent ]
OK, thanks to both you and Nomad.

I don't think, on this basis, that it's worth taking the language aspect any further. So we can go with the text as it stands, unless there are any new suggestions.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Sun Sep 10th, 2006 at 09:26:01 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Excellent. Include my name of course. If you need titles, we could all be "Contributing Editors, European Tribune"

If you need an Europeean Tribune email, use the one at the bottom of the site: etg@eurotrib.com. It goes to me (and, if Colman has exercised his option to do so, which I think he did not, to him as well).

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes

by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Sun Sep 10th, 2006 at 03:17:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Afew should give an e-mail address to collect endorsements (Name, country of residence, country of nationality) or confirmed that his published e-mail address should be used.

Nothing is 'mere'. — Richard P. Feynman
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sun Sep 10th, 2006 at 03:22:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I'll put up a diary with the final draft and a call for signatories. Real names can be handled by my e-mail account, afew at europe dot com. I think it would be good to use the ET mail account for the actual sending. Individuals might, however, wish to communicate the letter to their MEP.

I also received, this evening (!) a reply from the Biofuels Consultation to our mail thanking them for running a proper consultation. I'll post it tomorrow with the final draft.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Sun Sep 10th, 2006 at 03:38:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]
In other words, I don't find your comment helpful.

To draft an open letter of complaint to two commissioners seems to me to be a useful thing to do, and one which can increase our "visibility".

The drafting of the response to the GP can start without this being finished. Who's going to start it off?

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Fri Sep 8th, 2006 at 12:35:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

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