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The good thing about thsi endevour is that the list of diseases affecting Africa, Central America and some parts of India and South_America is quite short.

Most of the illness youc na see in the Third World can be solved completely with good water, good sanitation, good parenting help and good food. These are the things that really change the outcome of life... donot believe the hype of Big Pharma about how life-saving their products are...actually, taking into account the big picture, they are quite irrelevant (although in some particular cases it cna make the difference for a particular person).

So thecompany can indeed focus in the five (roughly) badly and desperately needed reasearch lines like Malaria or better solutions for Yellow Fever (just the two that most often come to my mind together with black fever mentioned).

I wish her a lot of luck. Although I also would like the states to research on these issues (as they already do in some cases)

A pleasure

I therefore claim to show, not how men think in myths, but how myths operate in men's minds without their being aware of the fact. Levi-Strauss, Claude

by kcurie on Mon Jan 1st, 2007 at 09:39:36 AM EST
My impression was, that it is not so much a question of research as of production. Many effectiv remedies seem already to exist, but are to expensive or do not make enough money for the regular Pharma companies to be interessted to produce them. So I think she actually is filling in a gap. Nevertheless it would be great if governments would support more research into these issues.

As we are not living in an ideal world, I think it is important to realise that people can make a difference.

by Fran (fran at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Jan 1st, 2007 at 09:50:04 AM EST
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I think I got that point. But I also understood...well somehow guessed (like an assumption you do without realizing it is not there) that she will devote the money to make the drugs cheap and to make research on those lines...

IN case he uses all the money to make some of the already drugs cheaper.. It is great!

Although, in that case, I think good food and good sanitation (and water) is much more needed generally...except for a very short set of medications. I hope she chooses them carefully and thoroughfully... in other words I hope that she knows much more than pharmaceuticals and medicine to get the proper answer (as far as I see it it is really a very difficult question...but maybe there are no-brainers).

A pleasure

I therefore claim to show, not how men think in myths, but how myths operate in men's minds without their being aware of the fact. Levi-Strauss, Claude

by kcurie on Mon Jan 1st, 2007 at 10:21:12 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Yes, and I also think you are right about the sanitation. I think the solution is like a puzzle - each peace is important to complete the picture or solution. I do not believe in the one and only solution.
by Fran (fran at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Jan 1st, 2007 at 10:23:32 AM EST
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As you may guess. I am with you.

A pleasure

I therefore claim to show, not how men think in myths, but how myths operate in men's minds without their being aware of the fact. Levi-Strauss, Claude

by kcurie on Mon Jan 1st, 2007 at 10:55:34 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Although I also would like the states to research on these issues

We have become (too) thankful of charity because, increasingly, it takes on roles that it should not NEED to.

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes

by Jerome a Paris (jeromeguillet@yahoo.fr) on Mon Jan 1st, 2007 at 11:40:17 AM EST
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I would like to see the state licence universtity post-graduate depts. to produce frontline tech. (in all areas), the patents (etc.) of which would be owned by the state (maybe with some chunk of cash or percentage of sommat to the inventor(s) of the new material/process/etc.)

Don't fight forces, use them R. Buckminster Fuller.
by rg (leopold dot lepster at google mail dot com) on Mon Jan 1st, 2007 at 01:34:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]
licence and finance...

Don't fight forces, use them R. Buckminster Fuller.
by rg (leopold dot lepster at google mail dot com) on Mon Jan 1st, 2007 at 01:40:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Most of the illness youc na see in the Third World can be solved completely with good water, good sanitation, good parenting help and good food.

Yes, very much so. I think the problem here is the frame - this is compassionate capitalism in action, with missionary overtones of bring the benefits of big-science to the innocent. Or something along those lines.

While running a not-for-profit foundation is better than being part of Big Pharma, if she'd set up a not-for-profit to provide basic sanitation, this would never have been tagged as a story in the mainstream press because it wouldn't be sexy enough.

It's not quite true that the 3rd world doesn't need meds, because tropical areas can be more hostile - with parasites and other infections - than temperate areas are. But the basics are an essential first step, and probably twice as likely to make a difference as drugs are.

An even more impressive result for a scheme like this would be to provide meds in the US itself.

Like kc I wish her well. But I think there is a subtext here, and it's about the exec class reflecting on itself. The recipients and their real needs seem to come lower down the list than the fact that this is pitched as an entrpreneurial success story.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Mon Jan 1st, 2007 at 11:42:36 AM EST
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We get quickly to a chicken-egg situation: imo education is the base from which all other life improvements stem. Yes, sanitation is needed, medications are needed, peace and justice are needed.

There is no instant solution. So all positive contributions are welcome.

I see nothing wrong with the exec class reflecting upon itself, providing that it would be indicative of a new mood of morality. Hardly to be expected, but not necessarily to be ridiculed.

Just as education is empowering in the 'Third World', so is it empowering in the executive world. My impression of the many execs I meet is that they are very well, but narrowly educated. All they want to know more about is what will help them survive and prosper in the tiny habitat that they currently occupy.

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Mon Jan 1st, 2007 at 12:06:05 PM EST
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Yes I agree with you!
by Fran (fran at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Jan 1st, 2007 at 12:29:23 PM EST
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Yes, sanitation is needed, medications are needed, peace and justice are needed.
There is no instant solution. So all positive contributions are welcome.
I totally agree.  All of these approaches are needed, and they can be done concurrently.  Cleaner sanitation will undoubtedly reduce the incidence of malaria--but even then some people will get it, and it will be a long time before all areas of the world are perfectly sanitized.  So this drug could be a miracle, and save many lives.
by wchurchill on Mon Jan 1st, 2007 at 12:58:41 PM EST
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Amazing how a story can be perceived so differently by different people. To me it was primarely the story of a woman who had to courage to follow her heart and take a step forward and do something about the misery she perceived. Why should she have created a non-profit company for sanitation if that is not her expertise? Why throw away years of learning an knowledge just because it could be called sexy? Sorry, I just have a problem following that line of thingking. :-)

I think it needs lots of courage to take that step and I do not know many people who have that courage. It is so easy to discuse this on sites like ET - but it needs a lot more to actually do something. If sanitation is so important maybe those here with the knowledge and expertise needed could start such an organization.

Also I do not think being entrepreneur is negativ - only if it is done with greed and egocentrically, and I do agree there is a lot of that. So, I find it nice to read about someone who does business with compassion and hope she will inspire others to do the same.

by Fran (fran at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Jan 1st, 2007 at 12:27:11 PM EST
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Whoa Fran!!!!  What an incredibly outstanding comment,,,IMHO!
by wchurchill on Mon Jan 1st, 2007 at 01:00:25 PM EST
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Thanks :-)
by Fran (fran at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Jan 1st, 2007 at 01:28:13 PM EST
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Fran - the point is there are already plenty of people out there working on basics like sanitation. But they never seem to make these kinds of headlines.

I have nothing against the initiative. I just think it has to be seen in a bigger aid work context. And it's possibly a little sad that one sexy story - and this is a very sexy story - is going to get more media attention and support than people who have been doing some extremely unsexy but very important work for years.

They deserve support too. If anything they deserve more support, because they're often on the front line. Sometimes they're literally putting their lives at risk, to an extent which I'd guess isn't the case here.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Mon Jan 1st, 2007 at 02:20:15 PM EST
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I do not mean to criticize Victoria Hale - but I was pointing out the context in which her acts become remarkable, i.e. one of neglect of certain activities by our governments, which makes her entrepeneurship both needed and noticeable.

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes
by Jerome a Paris (jeromeguillet@yahoo.fr) on Mon Jan 1st, 2007 at 02:53:34 PM EST
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I do not share your confidence in the ability of governments to solve all problems.  Individuals taking action, or donating money to good causes, or doing good things as a part of a business, or as part of an ngo have been necessary over time.

I believe this is a pretty big difference between the US and Europe, in that there is much more of a tradition of charititable contributions, in particular.  I know you disagree with that,,,but I think that is just a difference in approach.

by wchurchill on Mon Jan 1st, 2007 at 03:37:15 PM EST
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But the government should certainly do some of the things that have been abandoned to charities, at least the basic necessities.

That charities do more, or better, after that is good, and will reflect the individual preferences - and freedom to act - of citizens. But relying ONLY on charity for some roles seems unefficient and dangerous to me.

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes

by Jerome a Paris (jeromeguillet@yahoo.fr) on Mon Jan 1st, 2007 at 03:46:38 PM EST
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I agree.  Both are needed.
by wchurchill on Mon Jan 1st, 2007 at 03:48:43 PM EST
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I agree with you Jérôme, both are needed. However what I liked about Hale's business is that they are not into making profit.

I think one of the problems to today is, that companies are not happy any more to just make a profit, i.e. pay decent salaries, have all the expenses payed, even research and maybe have something left over. No, if the part left over at the end of a year is not at least twice as much as the year before the company is considered a failure. So, big companies are hoarding money, some don't even know what to do with it anymore, except for exorbitant bonuses, etc. Unfortunately even state owned companies today mostly fall into this pattern. Thus, I really consider the idea of a non-profit company novel for out times.

Okay, Hale's company gets the start up money from charities instead of banks, but I consider this a good investment, if this company actually will be able to make enough money to have all the expenses coveret, it will become self-sustaining.

by Fran (fran at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Jan 1st, 2007 at 04:06:02 PM EST
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Okay, Hale's company gets the start up money from charities instead of banks, but I consider this a good investment, if this company actually will be able to make enough money to have all the expenses coveret, it will become self-sustaining.
I agree it would be great if they could become self-sustaining.  However, even if they can't, I would think it's a good model to raise charitable contributions to make up the difference,  for this kind of drug development.  I would certainly feel great about using part of my charity dollars to support drugs that would otherwise not be developed to be developed--and I think others would as well.  And with truely huge donations being made by Buffet and Gates, and of course foundations such as Kresge and many other that have gone on for years, far bigger dollars than my paltry contributions are available.

In my view, which I know may not be broadly shared here at ET, we have plenty of pharmaceutical and other healthcare companies that have the objective of developing life saving products (see heart valves, angioplasty catheters, pacemakers, defibrillators, stents, Lipitor, etc. etc.) and making a profit.  But there are products that are needed such as Victoria Hale has identified, that can not be developed and make a profit, due to the target customer set being incredibly poor.  So this seems a great opportunity for those who have earned their money in free market systems, to give back to others, through this kind of model.

And I don't think it will be reasonable for Ms Hale's company to break even--given the costs that I mentioned earlier for clinical trials and drug development.  maybe for the "long hanging fruit" products she'll get a head start since other companies have done a lot of the work--but even then, won't clinical trials be required?  and then there are other diseases in the 3rd world that I think are going to need much more spending for drug development.  So I think this charity raising model could be great.

by wchurchill on Mon Jan 1st, 2007 at 05:27:47 PM EST
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ahhh, and after so much agreement all day,,,I hesitate to make this comment, but must,,,,I know it will not surprise you.  I think you are tarring a lot of good people with a broad brush with your negative comments on business.  Yes there are some bad actors in business, just like anywhere else in life.  but imho you are generalizing from a small set of bad actors and smearing a lot of good people.  

And it is the exception, not the rule, for a company to double its earnings from one year to the next,,,though I know the energy companies likely did it this year.  i don't have the numbers yet, but in the US I imagine earnings grew something like 12--22%, on average.

Happy New Year  -:)

by wchurchill on Mon Jan 1st, 2007 at 05:33:50 PM EST
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I agree, though my only corporate experience is in Finland, which I would say is not a typical business country.

You can't be me, I'm taken
by Sven Triloqvist on Mon Jan 1st, 2007 at 06:34:03 PM EST
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I read that if you remove energy and banking, S&P earnings stayed flat (or slightly decreasing) on average this year (that says a lot...).
by Laurent GUERBY on Tue Jan 2nd, 2007 at 03:33:36 AM EST
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sure, it says that in every up trend in the markets some segments lead, and some follow.  imho, it will be up again in '07, probably led by technology and some other sectors.  You can always back out the two lead sectors and find out it changes the results a lot.
by wchurchill on Tue Jan 2nd, 2007 at 10:46:22 AM EST
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I guess your right, I was exagerating somewhat - but living in a Pharma cîty, where the companies seem to reorganize and restructre continuesly (might be an exageration again, but it feels that way) letting go of people to save money, make those they keep work more and then read in the news paper that the profits have raised again and the top people get bigger boni (though not as big as in the US) it just makes me a little cynical.
by Fran (fran at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Jan 2nd, 2007 at 01:21:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

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