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But the government should certainly do some of the things that have been abandoned to charities, at least the basic necessities.

That charities do more, or better, after that is good, and will reflect the individual preferences - and freedom to act - of citizens. But relying ONLY on charity for some roles seems unefficient and dangerous to me.

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes

by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Mon Jan 1st, 2007 at 03:46:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I agree.  Both are needed.
by wchurchill on Mon Jan 1st, 2007 at 03:48:43 PM EST
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I agree with you Jérôme, both are needed. However what I liked about Hale's business is that they are not into making profit.

I think one of the problems to today is, that companies are not happy any more to just make a profit, i.e. pay decent salaries, have all the expenses payed, even research and maybe have something left over. No, if the part left over at the end of a year is not at least twice as much as the year before the company is considered a failure. So, big companies are hoarding money, some don't even know what to do with it anymore, except for exorbitant bonuses, etc. Unfortunately even state owned companies today mostly fall into this pattern. Thus, I really consider the idea of a non-profit company novel for out times.

Okay, Hale's company gets the start up money from charities instead of banks, but I consider this a good investment, if this company actually will be able to make enough money to have all the expenses coveret, it will become self-sustaining.

by Fran (fran at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Jan 1st, 2007 at 04:06:02 PM EST
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Okay, Hale's company gets the start up money from charities instead of banks, but I consider this a good investment, if this company actually will be able to make enough money to have all the expenses coveret, it will become self-sustaining.
I agree it would be great if they could become self-sustaining.  However, even if they can't, I would think it's a good model to raise charitable contributions to make up the difference,  for this kind of drug development.  I would certainly feel great about using part of my charity dollars to support drugs that would otherwise not be developed to be developed--and I think others would as well.  And with truely huge donations being made by Buffet and Gates, and of course foundations such as Kresge and many other that have gone on for years, far bigger dollars than my paltry contributions are available.

In my view, which I know may not be broadly shared here at ET, we have plenty of pharmaceutical and other healthcare companies that have the objective of developing life saving products (see heart valves, angioplasty catheters, pacemakers, defibrillators, stents, Lipitor, etc. etc.) and making a profit.  But there are products that are needed such as Victoria Hale has identified, that can not be developed and make a profit, due to the target customer set being incredibly poor.  So this seems a great opportunity for those who have earned their money in free market systems, to give back to others, through this kind of model.

And I don't think it will be reasonable for Ms Hale's company to break even--given the costs that I mentioned earlier for clinical trials and drug development.  maybe for the "long hanging fruit" products she'll get a head start since other companies have done a lot of the work--but even then, won't clinical trials be required?  and then there are other diseases in the 3rd world that I think are going to need much more spending for drug development.  So I think this charity raising model could be great.

by wchurchill on Mon Jan 1st, 2007 at 05:27:47 PM EST
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ahhh, and after so much agreement all day,,,I hesitate to make this comment, but must,,,,I know it will not surprise you.  I think you are tarring a lot of good people with a broad brush with your negative comments on business.  Yes there are some bad actors in business, just like anywhere else in life.  but imho you are generalizing from a small set of bad actors and smearing a lot of good people.  

And it is the exception, not the rule, for a company to double its earnings from one year to the next,,,though I know the energy companies likely did it this year.  i don't have the numbers yet, but in the US I imagine earnings grew something like 12--22%, on average.

Happy New Year  -:)

by wchurchill on Mon Jan 1st, 2007 at 05:33:50 PM EST
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I agree, though my only corporate experience is in Finland, which I would say is not a typical business country.

You can't be me, I'm taken
by Sven Triloqvist on Mon Jan 1st, 2007 at 06:34:03 PM EST
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I read that if you remove energy and banking, S&P earnings stayed flat (or slightly decreasing) on average this year (that says a lot...).
by Laurent GUERBY on Tue Jan 2nd, 2007 at 03:33:36 AM EST
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sure, it says that in every up trend in the markets some segments lead, and some follow.  imho, it will be up again in '07, probably led by technology and some other sectors.  You can always back out the two lead sectors and find out it changes the results a lot.
by wchurchill on Tue Jan 2nd, 2007 at 10:46:22 AM EST
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I guess your right, I was exagerating somewhat - but living in a Pharma cîty, where the companies seem to reorganize and restructre continuesly (might be an exageration again, but it feels that way) letting go of people to save money, make those they keep work more and then read in the news paper that the profits have raised again and the top people get bigger boni (though not as big as in the US) it just makes me a little cynical.
by Fran (fran at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Jan 2nd, 2007 at 01:21:18 PM EST
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