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I'm going to chime in here w/CC, that neither Industrial capitalism, nor Industrial socialism or communism, is going to get us out of the fix we're in -- because Industrialism still confuses production and destruction,   as in the canard that coal and oil are "produced" when what we really mean is that they are extracted and then destroyed.  Industrialism also requires, structurally, that core/periphery dynamic which can't be maintained w/o inequity, unequal exchange, and the liquidation of peripheral resources to feed the machineries at the core.  whether this destructive quality can be tamed by conscious policy is an interesting question -- perhaps the only really interesting and crucial question there is, in whatever time we have left as a semicoherent polity to think about it.

while finance capitalism is even more insane than industrial capitalism -- insanity of an even more abstracted, refined, and goofy order -- the fundamental disconnect where little details like entropy and thermodynamics are ignored, where the technomass is privileged over (and esterminates) the biomass, happens in the industrial model itself, whose materialist Utopian promise underlies both capitalism and communism.

The difference between theory and practise in practise ...

by DeAnander (de_at_daclarke_dot_org) on Fri Jan 19th, 2007 at 09:42:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]
damn.  exterminates.

The difference between theory and practise in practise ...
by DeAnander (de_at_daclarke_dot_org) on Fri Jan 19th, 2007 at 09:43:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]
It's not a hard problem. There are three things wrong with the 19th century formalisation of economics.

Firstly price and value are quantifications of individual desire. They can be time-based in the futures market sense. But they lack any wider social or ecological context. No system which is based on gimme gimme can be worth much, except possibly to children.

Secondly the concept of price is meaningless when relationships are assymetric. If a corporation decides that an object will cost £x, individuals have no bargaining power to change that cost. In the grossest sense they can either buy or not buy, but the price is not only set for them, but desire is artificially stimulated using media brainwashing techniques.

Economics in the real world is based almost entirely on these assymetrical power relationships. Convenient fictions about markets and rational agents are delusional, because all markets include a bias that favours some traders over others.

Finally, economics reduces all human transactions to a price and states that this price is the only important consideration.

The horror of this system isn't only that it's outdated and obsolete, or even that it's a major factor in the coming eco-crash.

The true horror is that so many humans seem to take the monster at face value, treating it affectionately, and accepting its diktats without questioning them.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Sun Jan 21st, 2007 at 12:40:21 PM EST
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