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Something puzzles me a bit. In what ways is the UK meaningfully a part of the EU currently? It's not part of Schengen, it's not part of the common currency, it's not part of the TENs. So what the hell is it part of? You can't even say it's fully part of the common market since France made sure to not build a freight rail line to the eurotunnel. As much out of spite as good common sense I'm sure.
by richardk (richard kulisz gmail) on Sat Jan 20th, 2007 at 02:46:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The EU has much more elements than open borders, the Euro and TENs.

The UK is part of the EP, the Coulcil, the Commission, and several regulating or planning bodies, it integrated laws, has Strasbourg as higher instance for trials, integrated some standards, had others taken over by the rest of the EU (for example 230 V as standard voltage), has visa-free travel for citizens, tariff-free travel for goods, pays in money and receives some back for specific purposes (though the main benefits beyond CAP money focus outside England: the local language programs, and the structural funds).

Some corrections: the UK is part of several TENs, check maps just in transport. It is on main axes 02, 13, 14 (all in Britain), 15 (well, not a true axis: Galileo), 21, 26. The problem with freight across Eurotunnel wasn't that France didn't built a freight rail access line -- it did, cross-Chunnel freight transports are ongoing --, but that Eurotunnel was denied the opportunity to operate on SNCF's tracks as a private railfreight company (here we see an unkind side of etatism, but probably it could have been under control if Eurotunnel would have been a joint state company).

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Sat Jan 20th, 2007 at 05:31:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Well, I knew that freight across the eurotunnel was ongoing but one of the specific complaints made by Eurotunnel is that some kind of access line somewhere didn't get built. On the British side it was the CTRL which came in a decade too late and on the French side it was a freight line, the lack of which they're still complaining about even now. If you can figure out what that's about, I'd appreciate it.

As for the TENs, my impression is that Britain isn't actually doing any work to make them a reality. With the CTRL being the sole exception. What Jerome is saying about gas isn't pretty. And the continued hatred of railroads by the Brits is well-known. I guess they stink too much of service publique.

I doubt voltage meant anything since the difference was small to begin with. Visa-less travel certainly doesn't mean anything because it's a bygone conclusion between rich white countries. The USA doesn't have it because it's devolving into savagery. Which leaves the open market and the european budget, both of which work in Britain's favour because it's a sell-out. The same with taking part in European politics which again it does only for its own benefit and in order to sabotage Europe.

So really, the only way that Britain participates in the EU that is non-trivial, willingly, and not completely selfish, is juridically. And even there, Britain does everything it can to avoid being dragged into civilization. Did you know that Britain did everything to minimize a ruling by the European Court of Human Rights to stop the beating of children?

Much like the USA, I haven't heard of a single unalloyed good thing about Britain. Not in my entire life. And you know what? I can cite good things even about Canada and Australia, both of which are anglo and therefore evil.

by richardk (richard kulisz gmail) on Sun Jan 21st, 2007 at 02:33:46 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Familiarity breeds contempt, or so the saying goes. And my familiarity with anglo countries has certainly bred my contempt of them. Or has it?

Countries ranked by my familiarity with them:

Canada
USA
France
Great Britain
Australia
Sweden
Japan
..

Countries ranked by my hatred of them:

USA
Great Britain
all of Africa
most of central Asia
..
nearly all of latin America
..
Canada
..
Australia
..
France
Sweden

---

So what do you know, familiarity doesn't breed contempt. It's just a coincidence that the USA and Great Britain both top the list.

by richardk (richard kulisz gmail) on Sun Jan 21st, 2007 at 03:08:04 AM EST
[ Parent ]
on the French side it was a freight line, the lack of which they're still complaining about even now

It may be that a technical term made you confused. 'Path' in English, 'Trasse' in German, and 'sillon' in French denote a slot on a railway line, e.g. leaving room for a train in the timetable. The problem for Eurotunnel has long been just getting a permit to operate on SNCF tracks on its own. Before the last financial crisis, they finally got close to getting it, but then the crisis managers decided to shelve the issue.

Regarding the TENs, there is the giant work of the WCML upgrade. Both in the price tag and in terms of connections with the rest of Europe, the CTRL is so key that 'sole exception' is underplaying it. It indeed came a decade late, thanks Maggie Thatcher. I'm less familiar with roads and ports. I don't know about "continued hatred of railroads by the Brits", but about continued complaints from (growing in numbers) passengers in the silly chaotic privatised 'system'. I guess there are train haters, but unfortunately there are train-hating car-lovers all over Europe. (Comparing the UK with France, the UK actually has 10% more passenger-journeys even without the Tube, though much less passenger-kilometres, a joint effect of a smaller country and lack of high-speed lines.)

Voltage meant much for power system managers (BTW in some places, it was just 220 to 230 V, in others 110 to 230), and involved standardisation in connections if I am not mistaken. No, visaless travel is not a bygone conclusion, you can grow poor or politics can change. You then go on accusing Britain of thinks all EU members do.

Much like the USA, I haven't heard of a single unalloyed good thing about Britain.

Well, name an unalloyed good think about any other country, and I see if I agree it's unalloyed.

Really, this 100 Years War Re-Match some of you in this thread do in place of EU politics is getting weary with an outside view.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Sun Jan 21st, 2007 at 07:32:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I can't find the article I read about EWS and Cargo Rail; too much time has passed. Maybe you're right.

I misspoke when I said British. I meant Britain by which I mean the British elites. Since Blair's policies are a continuation of Thatcher's ....

In my other diary, I list a number of unalloyed good things
http://www.eurotrib.com/story/2007/1/21/4445/15448

a couple of commentators have listed some unalloyed good things which the UK has done. Unfortunately, they were centuries ago.

by richardk (richard kulisz gmail) on Mon Jan 22nd, 2007 at 06:33:43 AM EST
[ Parent ]

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