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has to represent the countries.

So either it's a representative of the then current government of the country, or it's a new class of representatives that would be elected specifically for that purpose.

I suspect that the latter would create all sorts of power sharing conundrums, so the first one is more practical - and is what is happening already in effect via the Council.

Alternatively, you may consider that the real second chamber is the COREPER, which I'll let you google...

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes

by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Wed Oct 10th, 2007 at 10:04:19 AM EST
[ Parent ]
But the COREPER is not an elected body neither are its members elected in their country. It is part of the Executive.

While we are at it, I think we should also discuss the role of the European Economic and Social Committee and of the Committee of the Regions...

"Dieu se rit des hommes qui se plaignent des conséquences alors qu'ils en chérissent les causes" Jacques-Bénigne Bossuet

by Melanchthon on Wed Oct 10th, 2007 at 10:15:55 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I think that practically everyone here is agrees that the second house should have a smaller number of representatives, which be the same for every country. Policy area-dependent approval thresholds should be such that a law approved by both chambers would correspond to the double majority, as agreed in the new treaty.

I don't  know whether the second chamber should discuss laws for those realms of policy were there will be veto power for individual countries. Since veto is not certain, and since this would not be a senate like the US or any other federation, I suggest that on those matters there should not be head counting; just two outcomes: approved or not approved.

The issue is its composition. Lets see its requirements:

  • National governments do want to keep control, and many of us want to them to keep control.

  • Government control must be explicit, in order to retain accountability. Also voting must be discriminated by person, and its records must be publicly available immediately after session.

  • On the other hand, heads of government and its ministers need to stay close to its power base.

I suggest that the members of this second chamber should be constituted by the head of government, together with 2 ministers of his choice, depending on the issues under discussion, who would gather during a small period - the first working week (5 days) - of each month. The agenda would still be prepared by permanent representatives.
That would be a smooth transition, the number of representative would be manageable, and would fit the psyche of government heads - who need some one to boss around.
by findmeaDoorIntoSummer on Wed Oct 10th, 2007 at 05:27:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Correction: two representatives per country - the head of government plus a minister, or whatever the former decides.
by findmeaDoorIntoSummer on Wed Oct 10th, 2007 at 05:34:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]
In other words, the Council as currently configured, plus "voting must be discriminated by person, and its records must be publicly available immediately after session".

We have met the enemy, and it is us — Pogo
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Oct 10th, 2007 at 06:04:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]
In terms of composition, yes. What is the problem of choosing government members as representatives?

Lack of commitment is the reason that came to mind. Making them hold sessions during one week, in the same place - Brussels -, instead of week end marathons here and there, is an adequate display of the everyday business of negotiations between sovereign, yet hardly independent, countries.

I just cannot see how government heads would let go any of its powers to someone else of its own nationality. Can you?
One week for europe and three for strictly your own country seems a good compromise. you don't realise the full magnitude of this change.
... Actually, I think the EU is already much more than what we are taken to realise.

(what follows may be off topic. I just assume that you have federalism in mind)
I've nothing against federalism, except that is a higher concentration of power. I distrust large countries. They are prone to destructive policies, home and abroad.
May be a european federation is better. Let's make different errors, better errors, said Samuel Beckett.
At the national level, I've nothing to lose. However, I've the EU to lose. I remember Jacques Delors - "the european community is a slow animal, better that it goes in the right direction".
In fact, federalism is the only subject which makes me feel pleasant about mortality: cannot imagine the ability to decide for futures generations on this subject.

by findmeaDoorIntoSummer on Wed Oct 10th, 2007 at 07:13:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]
It would be nice to enforce a specially dedicated member of the government for the job. National PMs and ministers tend to miss the importance of the council (brings them too little press) : Sarkozy when he was Finance Minister almost never went to the Finance sessions of the council, for example.

Un roi sans divertissement est un homme plein de misères
by linca (antonin POINT lucas AROBASE gmail.com) on Wed Oct 10th, 2007 at 07:19:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Generally it is the Minister of Foreign Relations that goes to the "general affairs" council meetings.

I do think it is a good idea that important, specialised parts of the portfolio are segregated and that the respective ministers attend.

Of course, each National government could have a "minister for European Affairs" (this could well be "European and Foreign Affairs" in charge of attending all EU councils. But, at the end of the day, sometimes the head of state or government has to be the one at the meeting to agree to the big decisions.

So, like I said, the current configuration is probably the correct one. The issue is, can the Council be expected to operate under roll-call votes all the time, rather than secret votes? The European Parliament already publishes voting records for every vote that it conducts.

We have met the enemy, and it is us — Pogo

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Oct 11th, 2007 at 03:09:21 AM EST
[ Parent ]

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