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"We" really are not in a position to be throwing any stones, because "our" society isn't really in the business of making happy, healthy, well-adjusted adults either

You just threw all the social movements of the 20th century under the bus. Please don't use the "not holy enough" argument.

Second, there are many, many, many ways that many cultures, including our own, suppress (or oppress) women.  Nobody has a monopoly on it.  So it's only the ones who suppress women in a particular manner who're moving us away from total Zen bliss?

For me, this sort of statement sums up the friction between cultural relativism and personal rights. Women in Arab countries have fewer freedoms than women in the west. I say that with what I think is a decent idea of what the Arab world does better.

I'm not going add anything more - at this point it would require x-thousand words to add any nuance to this as our opinions differ in a very basic manner.

you are the media you consume.

by MillMan (millguy at gmail) on Thu Nov 1st, 2007 at 03:14:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Women in Arab countries have fewer freedoms than women in the west.

And 99.9 percent of those things have nothing to do with sex or sexuality.  It's just as complicated a thing here as anywhere, but on the list of things I'd like to change about the society I live in (and it's a long list) what you're talking about would be way down at the bottom.  "Freedom" is a helluva lot more than freedom to wear next to nothing.

by the stormy present (stormypresent aaaaaaat gmail etc) on Thu Nov 1st, 2007 at 09:20:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]
"Freedom" is a helluva lot more than freedom to wear next to nothing.

Are you talking to me, or music video producers?

you are the media you consume.

by MillMan (millguy at gmail) on Fri Nov 2nd, 2007 at 12:58:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I'm just surprised that you've assumed the absolute worst from my comments.

you are the media you consume.

by MillMan (millguy at gmail) on Fri Nov 2nd, 2007 at 01:05:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Here's you:

I really, really passionately hate seeing sexuality presented in a cultural context,
I also really, really passionately hate the either-or proposition here.
It's a matter of discipline, learning, and self-awareness that "the west" has only consciously engaged in for about a century, and the Arab world has hardly touched it for centuries.

Here's me:

I think you may not realize how that sounds?

Here's you again:

It sounds politically incorrect. I won't back down from the statement

I gave you the opportunity to clarify, and you did.  You made it really, really passionately clear.

by the stormy present (stormypresent aaaaaaat gmail etc) on Fri Nov 2nd, 2007 at 08:35:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

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