European Tribune

Display:
Apologies to DoDo if he has already posted about this in the Salon or something...

Spain yesterday tested the new high-speed, international gauge, line from Madrid to Valladolid, which has been planned for 18 (!) years. Even though the catenary is in place, a diesel engine (which had in the past set the world record for speed by diesel engines, according to a local newspaper here in Valladolid) was used. The line will be tested for 6 weeks, soon with the high-speed electric trainsets, and will come into service on December 23. This line is part of the Madrid-Irún line which will allow high-speed trains to run between Madrid and Paris in under 10 hours (maybe DoDo knows the planned travel time for this future route).

The new high-speed line will connect Madrid with Segovia in 35 minutes for €20 and Madrid and Valladolid in 55 minutes for €30 (€50 return). Valladolid is the capital of the Castilla-León Autonomous Community and an important economic and logistic centre in North-West Spain. IMHO it is easy to underestimate the importance of this new transport link. I think the economic effect will be major, as it has been for the links between Madrid, Toledo, Ciudad Real and Sevilla.

We have met the enemy, and he is us — Pogo

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Nov 16th, 2007 at 01:06:25 PM EST
Even though the catenary is in place, a diesel engine (which had in the past set the world record for speed by diesel engines, according to a local newspaper here in Valladolid) was used.

That 'diesel engine' is actually a diesel multiple unit (DMU), the Talgo XXI, which is fitted out and used as a specialised test train, and normal practice when commissioning high-speed lines is to go up with test run top speed in steps of 30 km/h steps, so its use shouldn't be surprising.

The Talgo XXI, aka "Virgen del Rocío", aka BT001, aka AVE/RENFE 355 001, was built as a gauge-changing train prototype in 2002. It achieved a world record of 256.38 km/h for DMUs, snatching it from Britain's HST (while the diesel engine world record is actually higher, 275 km/h by a Russian loco).

A picture of the train after conversion to test train for GIF and re-painting in the scheme of Zapatero-era GIF successor ADIF:

This line is part of the Madrid-Irún line which will allow high-speed trains to run between Madrid and Paris in under 10 hours (maybe DoDo knows the planned travel time for this future route).

With no definite route set on half the missing sections, it is a bit early to predict travel time. Would it all be fully built out for 360 km/h with no gaps, it could be around four hours non-stop. But realistically, we can be happy with six hours in 2016, with seven more likely (2h10 Paris-Bordeaux, maybe 2h30m Madrid-Irún, what's critical is in-between in France).

*Traitor*, n.
A benighted individual who perceives an illusory distinction between serving his nation and abetting the criminals who govern it.

by DoDo on Fri Nov 16th, 2007 at 04:42:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The Talgo XXI, aka "Virgen del Rocío", aka BT001, aka AVE/RENFE 355 001

Nitpicking myself: there are actually two of them, but see the picture. (ADIF also owns the single Talgo 350 prototype for similar purposes but higher speeds & electric traction.)

*Traitor*, n.
A benighted individual who perceives an illusory distinction between serving his nation and abetting the criminals who govern it.

by DoDo on Fri Nov 16th, 2007 at 05:35:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]
This line is part of the Madrid-Irún line which will allow high-speed trains to run between Madrid and Paris in under 10 hours (maybe DoDo knows the planned travel time for this future route).

With no definite route set on half the missing sections, it is a bit early to predict travel time. Would it all be fully built out for 360 km/h with no gaps, it could be around four hours non-stop. But realistically, we can be happy with six hours in 2016, with seven more likely (2h10 Paris-Bordeaux, maybe 2h30m Madrid-Irún, what's critical is in-between in France).

Well, I knew Paris-Irún takes 5 hours with the TGV, so I was allowing 5 hours also for Madrid-Irún. Intermediate stops are likely to be at Segovia, Valladolid, Palencia, Burgos, Vitoria and San Sebastián. For faster service, I suppose one could do Valladolid, Burgos, Vitoria and San Sebastián, but I can't imagine Madrid-Irún being done in less than 3h30. I really doubt the high-speed train will stop at Irún if it already stops at Vitoria and/or San Sebastián.

We have met the enemy, and he is us — Pogo
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sat Nov 17th, 2007 at 06:16:43 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Paris-Irún takes 5½ hours today, but French infrastructure authority RFF is preparing the Sud Europe Atlantique line (high-speed to Bordeaux) and some upgrades to Dax.

Today Madrid-Irún is at best similarly 5½h. But how did you get at nothing under 3h30 with high-speed?

Madrid-Valladolid (179.6 km) is slated at an initial 0h55 (later 0h50), while Vitoria-San Sebastián on the in-construction Y Vasca (c. 110 km) at 0h34m. Nothing is definite for Valladolid-Burgos-Vitoria (c. 220 km), but Aznar-time general plans put Madrid-Vitoria at 1h35, Madrid-San Sebastián at 2h15 (and Valladolid at 0h50).

Direct Madrid-Paris, or even Madrid-Vitoria and Madrid-San Sebastián trains don't need to stop at intermediate stops (just as there are say direct Paris-Marseilles trains). Note that San Sebastián is not on the direct line to France (for that matter, Irún may be bypassed too), check on the Y Vasca map (and with bypass in this press release [pdf!]).

What might limit schedule plans in the medium term is problems with the signalling system ERTMS Lev 2. Madrid-Barcelona runs with 300 km/h only since a few months, and it seems plans to run the Siemens and Talgo trains at higher speeds (350 resp. 330 km/h) have been put on ice. But this should be solved by the time all of the Valladolid-Vitoria gap is built...

*Traitor*, n.
A benighted individual who perceives an illusory distinction between serving his nation and abetting the criminals who govern it.

by DoDo on Sat Nov 17th, 2007 at 11:23:50 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Meanwhile, the Netherlands just decided to kill the high speed line from Schiphol to Groningen, preferring to spend the money on road construction (well, only part of the money, but still...)

And the Dutch train drivers are preparing a strike on international trains starting monday.

Sigh...

by nanne (zwaerdenmaecker@gmail.com) on Fri Nov 16th, 2007 at 07:43:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The state board that is planning California's 700-mile high-speed rail system is facing a politically sensitive route decision that could make or break the $40 billion project. The nine-member board of the California High-Speed Rail Authority is scheduled to decide next month how to get the bullet trains through the coastal mountains between the San Joaquin Valley and the San Francisco Bay area, and the debate over the options has become fierce.

The authority is proposing a rail system that would carry passengers between California's largest cities on trains that run at top speeds of more than 200 mph. Supporters see it as an important third option to freeway and air travel as the state's population heads toward 60 million by 2050.

http://www.mercurynews.com/breakingnews/ci_7442992

by asdf on Fri Nov 16th, 2007 at 11:57:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Its when the transport tasks and the politics get tangled up that we get to the cross your fingers and hope stage.


Utsukushikereba sore de ii
by BruceMcF (agila61 at netscape dot net) on Sat Nov 17th, 2007 at 12:44:56 AM EST
[ Parent ]
as it would bring it closer to sacramento, and thus within a hop, skip and a jump from where i am. ther southern route will leave the capital region out of the loop awaiting a "to be built later" spur line.
by wu ming on Sat Nov 17th, 2007 at 04:00:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]
... and I agree ... both for how the layout works regionally and for how the layout works for inter-regional connections.


Utsukushikereba sore de ii
by BruceMcF (agila61 at netscape dot net) on Sun Nov 18th, 2007 at 11:28:09 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Display:
Login
. Make a new account
. Reset password
Recommended Diaries
LQD: Geoengineering Ranked
by nanne - Nov 19
8 comments

So I met Bill McKibben
by SacredCowTipper - Nov 20
1 comment

The Puritan Edge
by rg - Nov 20
18 comments

UN: end the 'inhuman' blockade of Gaza
by heathlander - Nov 15
10 comments

Trains in Moravia
by DoDo - Nov 16
72 comments

Agriculture without Fossil Fuels
by SacredCowTipper - Nov 17
1 comment

jitter noise rumble
by emilmoller - Nov 19
18 comments

Nader's grovelling to AIPAC letter to Obama
by shergald - Nov 18
4 comments

Debates
Campaigns
Occasional Series