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it would seem that being far, far north is the main source of desirability.

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes
by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Wed Nov 28th, 2007 at 04:51:23 AM EST
No, it's having a  free-market economy like Norway.
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Wed Nov 28th, 2007 at 04:59:05 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Norway has a free market economy. It also has redistributive policies to prevent the rise of feudalism.

Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.
by Starvid (arvid.hallen at gmail.com) on Wed Nov 28th, 2007 at 05:57:28 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Their attitude to social justice/ inequality/ redistribution is part of it.

But there's also the Norwegian attitude to land ownership and use, which is one of the principal issues they have with the EU's approach to property ownership and the free market.

Norwegians fundamentally do not allow "absentee" landlordism - although it has gradually been insinuated as the "Anglo Disease" has crept in.

"Any economic unit can emit money. The serious problem is to get it accepted" Hyman Minsky

by ChrisCook (cojockathotmaildotcom) on Wed Nov 28th, 2007 at 06:56:02 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Seems odd to me. The EU does very little in the area of private law such as land ownership. It's a mistake to think that a country could not have its own policies in that area. Such as setting limits to the amount of land that can be owned, or ownership of land without presence on the land. The only thing the EU would demand is that the legislation does not discriminate between Norwegians and EU citizens.
by nanne (zwaerdenmaecker@gmail.com) on Wed Nov 28th, 2007 at 11:51:24 AM EST
[ Parent ]
The Norwegian 'Odelsrett' does discriminate against EU citizens, and against ordinary Norwegian citizens for that matter.

Odelsrett - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Odelsrett is an ancient Scandinavian allodial title which has survived in Norway as odelsrett

This law has been an important building block on which a stable and thriving farming community has been instrumental in sustaining local communities all over the country.    

by Solveig (link2ageataol.com) on Wed Nov 28th, 2007 at 02:21:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]
If you'd just reverse the way this is done - make the Odelsrett a standard clause in a contract, instead of a customary right, and presto! you have entered contractual freedom bliss - I don't see how the EU could do anything against it. There are many ways in the law to get to the same result.
by nanne (zwaerdenmaecker@gmail.com) on Wed Nov 28th, 2007 at 02:30:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Well, that's not a million miles away from my thesis that a "consensual" - partnership-based and "two -way" - legal protocol can assimilate any national jurisdiction and their "one way" imposed "Law" and "Equity", simply by reference in the agreement.

That is why I regard partnership-based "Open Corporate" (eg UK LLP) agreements as a form of "Legal XML" capable of linking disparate jurisdictions and legal persons in the same way that XML links disparate hardware and software.

The Semantic Web: Law is Code.

"Any economic unit can emit money. The serious problem is to get it accepted" Hyman Minsky

by ChrisCook (cojockathotmaildotcom) on Wed Nov 28th, 2007 at 02:51:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Those are very interesting links!

You can't be me, I'm taken
by Sven Triloqvist on Wed Nov 28th, 2007 at 02:32:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Thank you...

These old Viking laws are still FUNDAMENTAL to the Norwegian way of life, and no EU law should be allowed to 'dilute' them, IMO.

It may be a better EU if they adopted them...;-)

And by the way, they also apply in Orkney and Shetland as Udal title...

by Solveig (link2ageataol.com) on Wed Nov 28th, 2007 at 02:43:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I also agree abut the climate's influence on how societies develop. In the boreal area, for all animals including humans, there is always an energy balance - if you expend more energy getting food than you get from the food itself, then in the winter, you're dead.

You can't be me, I'm taken
by Sven Triloqvist on Wed Nov 28th, 2007 at 03:07:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]
A fuller explanation and discussion of these laws is worth a diary.

You can't be me, I'm taken
by Sven Triloqvist on Wed Nov 28th, 2007 at 03:10:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I know...a diary has been 'brewing' in my head for a while...provoked, perhaps, by the rather 'Central European view of the world' which is often expressed on ET.  

I would suggest that a better understanding of how societies have developed in the Nordic countries may give food for thought to the (still, IMO) Empire building attitudes of the larger EU countries.    

Maybe I should sit down one day...

by Solveig (link2ageataol.com) on Wed Nov 28th, 2007 at 03:31:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Or far, far south ... but anyway, its clearly based on being further from the equator than most of your neighbours.

Heck, I'd not be surprised if Seth Efrica topped the list amongst African countries.

I've been accused of being a Marxist, yet while Harpo's my favourite, it's Groucho I'm always quoting. Odd, that.

by BruceMcF (agila61 at netscape dot net) on Wed Nov 28th, 2007 at 05:43:20 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Perhaps it's posession of snow that does it

Fortunately the world appears to have passed peak snow so the US will not be at so much of a disadvantage.

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.

by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Wed Nov 28th, 2007 at 05:48:15 AM EST
[ Parent ]
ceebs:
Perhaps it's posession of snow that does it

I guess you meant that as a joke, but I believe there may be an element of truth there.  

A harsh climate may have something to do with how Norwegian/Nordic societies have developed.

It is necessary to co-operate and share to survive in these conditions.  Add to the climate 'problems', the fact that only 4% of Norway's landmass is agricultural land - and therefore hugely valuable to a community - and you will understand that we need laws to ensure that land is farmed.  These laws have worked well, and have ensured that we still have a self-owning farming community - although the farms are very small compared to most in Europe.

The EU claims these land laws violate 'human rights', and probably a few other free market rules...(enough said...I better not start another anti-EU discussion...hides...)    

   

by Solveig (link2ageataol.com) on Wed Nov 28th, 2007 at 07:41:01 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Solveig:

A harsh climate may have something to do with how Norwegian/Nordic societies have developed.

It is necessary to co-operate and share to survive in these conditions.  Add to the climate 'problems', the fact that only 4% of Norway's landmass is agricultural land - and therefore hugely valuable to a community - and you will understand that we need laws to ensure that land is farmed.  These laws have worked well, and have ensured that we still have a self-owning farming community - although the farms are very small compared to most in Europe.

Sven something rather similar once ago:

Sven Triloqvist:

Neither should one forget the deep psychological historical effect of winter. If you didn't prepare for winter, you died. Food and energy had to be stored or preserved. The elements also had tp be respected.

Though this may seem trite, I believe that this 'looking, planning ahead' and respect for nature are essential ingredients in the Nordic psyche leading to the attributes described in this diary.

As I mention in response to Sven, there is conventional wisdom in Japan as well that very limited natural resources, geography, climate, and frequent earthquakes had enormous influence on the development of Japanese culture.

The EU claims these land laws violate 'human rights', and probably a few other free market rules...(enough said...I better not start another anti-EU discussion...hides...)

Now I am really looking forward to that diary!  (as well as ThatBritGuy's, though on a different topic.)

Truth unfolds in time through a communal process.

by marco (cowannar at gmail punkt com) on Wed Nov 28th, 2007 at 06:54:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I'm looking forward to ThatBritGuy's Diary too.

As for Solveig, she tells she may have a title.

But the Diary itself may take a little more time, cos she's a Virgo and she likes to have her sources TIDY.....

"Any economic unit can emit money. The serious problem is to get it accepted" Hyman Minsky

by ChrisCook (cojockathotmaildotcom) on Wed Nov 28th, 2007 at 07:07:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Never trust a virgo... ;-)

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Wed Nov 28th, 2007 at 07:10:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Now, now.  Remember the standing ban on references to astrology and other things occult.

Truth unfolds in time through a communal process.
by marco (cowannar at gmail punkt com) on Wed Nov 28th, 2007 at 07:42:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Naaah...it's ok, Jerome's gone to bed....

"Any economic unit can emit money. The serious problem is to get it accepted" Hyman Minsky
by ChrisCook (cojockathotmaildotcom) on Wed Nov 28th, 2007 at 08:03:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

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