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Good diary, Jake, but I think maybe you are fighting the last war.

In this age of the Internet Global Transnats are obsolescent dinosaurs, and a global union "Organisation" would just be another hierarchical dinosaur.

Future society will be a networked society, IMHO, and the future that I see would involve something much more along the lines of a networked mix of Guild Socialism and Venture Communism.

In the future Society I see, Labour would take control of its own destiny and work with not for Capital: there will no return for "rentiers"; no "Profit" and "Loss" and it will be in our interests to cooperate rather than to compete other than in terms of Quality.

by ChrisCook (cojockathotmaildotcom) on Thu Dec 13th, 2007 at 05:24:48 PM EST
Venture Communism?!

Venture Communism is an investment model designed to be a form of revolutionary worker's struggle. The Venture Commune is a type of voluntary worker's association, designed to enclose the productivity of labour and enable the possibility of the collective accumulation of Land and Capital, which, in the endgame, will eventually allow the workers to buy the entire world from the Capitalists.

Help.  I can't make my head stop spinning.  Help.

Come, my friends, 'Tis not too late to seek a newer world.

by poemless on Thu Dec 13th, 2007 at 05:32:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I know: great stuff eh, Comrade?
by ChrisCook (cojockathotmaildotcom) on Thu Dec 13th, 2007 at 05:34:08 PM EST
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You know, my friend and I were discussing business models over wine last night.  No, this is a true story.  I'm not really a business model type of person.  Not something I think about when I let my mind wander.  Which is why I'm such a Comrade.  Property, money, business ... I can't get past "Why don't we all just split everything evenly and go home and concentrate on more important things?"  So my friend wants to start this ... business.  And when you said "Venture communism" I thought you were describing something along the same lines.  I wont go into specifics, but it would be part retail space and part social services and part arts center and be run like a collective.  

Not sure about the Workers buying out the Capitalists.  Wouldn't that make them... Capitalists?  

Come, my friends, 'Tis not too late to seek a newer world.

by poemless on Thu Dec 13th, 2007 at 05:45:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Why don't we all just split everything evenly and go home and concentrate on more important things?"

Now that's music to my ears, poemless. There is plenty enough to go around if spread equitably.

As for Capitalism: well yes, we all should be Capitalists. But it won't be Capital as we know it, Jim....

If you are planning a "cooperative of cooperatives": or a "networked collective", then that is exactly the sort of thing I've been working on for years.

Sounds like you may be a Venture Communist.

by ChrisCook (cojockathotmaildotcom) on Thu Dec 13th, 2007 at 06:13:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]
- or however you spell it in romaji.

Ah hah - poemless is a closet co-oper. You will join Milo - I can see it now.

paul spencer

by paul spencer (spencerinthegorge AT yahoo DOT com) on Thu Dec 13th, 2007 at 11:46:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I'm not really a co-oper.  My friend is.  Something too...  cultish about co-ops.

Come, my friends, 'Tis not too late to seek a newer world.
by poemless on Fri Dec 14th, 2007 at 12:11:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Yup, I'm interested in "cooperation" in the broader sense of collaboration.

The most resistance I get to the ideas I am putting forward actually comes from within the Cooperative movement, where the people who run Co-ops (not the members....) are quite happy with the structures they have, thank you very much.

The UK lawyers for the big UK Coops think I'm the anti-Christ, since, as they are paid by the hour, the last thing they want are simple structures and consensual agreements...

So complex and "genetically modified" forms of "For Profit" Corporations will do them nicely.

by ChrisCook (cojockathotmaildotcom) on Fri Dec 14th, 2007 at 01:23:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Just because a person works in a Co-Op that doesn't mean they aren't a small-minded, short-sighted, power-hungry, south-end of a north bound horse.

A doo run-run-run, a doo run-run
by ATinNM on Fri Dec 14th, 2007 at 10:41:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The swedish Kooperativa Föreningen, more known under the trademark Coop, is a prime example. It is a huge organisation, owning among other things the second largest chain of grocery stores in Sweden. The members hardly know that they are members, much less what they can do to affect the organisation in any manner. It is run by and for the benefit of managment, probably top managment.
by A swedish kind of death on Sat Dec 15th, 2007 at 10:20:18 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I think the UK's Coop is very similar. We get a glossy magazine with articles on green issues and polls about the Coop's ethical corporate policies, but other than that it's just like any other business.

We have met the enemy, and he is us — Pogo
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Dec 19th, 2007 at 05:57:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Mondragon has many of the same issues outside of Spain, but up there in Basque Country-Navarra, they're pretty awesome.  And they own Eroski, and I forget the other smaller food retailer, I want to say Consum.....

And I'll give my consent to any government that does not deny a man a living wage-Billy Bragg
by ManfromMiddletown (manfrommiddletown at lycos dot com) on Wed Dec 19th, 2007 at 06:04:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Not sure about the Workers buying out the Capitalists.  Wouldn't that make them... Capitalists?

Nope.  It makes them owners.

BTW, there's nothing inherently evil about the economic function of providing capital.  

A doo run-run-run, a doo run-run

by ATinNM on Fri Dec 14th, 2007 at 10:38:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]
BTW, there's nothing inherently evil about the economic function of providing capital.

There's also nothing inherently evil about peanuts, but some people are fatally allergic to them.  

Come, my friends, 'Tis not too late to seek a newer world.

by poemless on Thu Dec 20th, 2007 at 03:32:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Perhaps I am fighting the last war. But so are the trans-nats :-P

And if you think they'll gracefully accept your proposed new way of doing economics without putting up a major fight, you need a major re-calibration of your reality-o-meter. Remember that these guys can and do buy and sell whole countries out of pocket change.

And at any rate, fighting the last war is a deal better than the protectionist attitudes of much of the anti-globalist movement - 'cause that's fighting the war before last.

Further, I'm skeptical of the notion that the virtual economy has changed the rules fundamentally. So far such claims seem to be smoke and mirrors from where I'm sitting, since - in the end - the real economy trumphs the virtual economy (as the Americans are learning so painfully right now). And while we try to separate the nonsense from the sense, the institutions and regulations that have so far guaranteed reasonable comfort and non-atrocious living conditions are dissolving around us.

I think that you will find, if you take a look at a map, that countries with a history of strong labour unions have a far more equitable distribution of wealth than countries with a history of weak labour unions. Correlation does not, of course, prove causation, and unions are far from the only factor, but I have the distinct impression that they are an important one.

W.r.t. hierarchial dinosaurs, a global union does not need to be a particularly ponderous beast in terms of organisation. The central thing about a union - the heart and soul, if you wish to be poetic about it - is the combination of a lot of pissed-off people on the ground and a big war chest. Everything else is really just scaffolding.

- Jake

Ceterum censeo Chicago esse delendam

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Thu Dec 13th, 2007 at 05:45:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Jake, Migeru has a nice word for what's going on under our feet right now: "Telluric" movement of tectonic plates is what it is.

I don't think many people really appreciate quite what the pervasive spread of the Internet is doing.

Those mega-Corporations and mega-Unions who do not use the collaborative techniques now emerging will be at a disadvantage to those who do. Capitalism will eat itself, and we will see - as Marx put it - the "Abolition of Labour" through the empowerment of connected individuals working towards a consensually agreed common purpose.

I call this process "Napsterisation" since to me the seminal moment - the "Epiphany" - was the realisation that a 19 year old could single-handedly kill off the business model of the global music industry.

Banks are about to go the same way: I give them 2 to 5 years: and when that happens, anything is possible.

Having said all that, in order to get there we do have to start from here, and of course it goes without saying that existing unions should work together globally to a common purpose.

But the last thing they need is global "Organisations": Organisations are the problem, not the solution.

But a framework within which they may self organise? Comrade, I'm right with you.

by ChrisCook (cojockathotmaildotcom) on Thu Dec 13th, 2007 at 06:06:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Chris is correct, too. (He told me that his Dad was a socialist [like me, I guess], and that seems to have something to do with his metaphor concerning dinosaurs. Just kidding, Chris - sort of.)

My only disagreement with Chris is my agreement with you - I think. That is, we have to try to marshal a response, rather than just let history occur. Don't get me wrong, though, Chris is working on the response, too - but I agree with you that we need a broad and deep movement of the most motivated world citizens to change the system. Who's that, you say? Why working people, for sure. What are they going to do? Why dismantle the pyramid, of course. How do you do that? Why remove the top stone first, naturally.

paul spencer

by paul spencer (spencerinthegorge AT yahoo DOT com) on Fri Dec 14th, 2007 at 12:14:30 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Jake, I was with you wholeheartedly up to:

JakeS:

Everything else is really just scaffolding

Let's not neglect scaffolding, because it's really important for keeping things standing.

I have little union experience to speak of, but I was a works council member for close to seven years, and in my experience organizations based on cooperative decision making are hard work and require constant maintenance.

Arriving at common goals and strategies is hard work. Learning the ins and outs of issues relating to, say, a working time agreement is hard work. Explaining to your base why you're spending months haggling with the employer over details (and why the details are important) is often very hard work. And works councils are responsible for only a single company. If my experience with works agreements is anything to go by, in a collective bargaining situation 90% of the effort has probably already been expended before the first formal demand is made.

All kinds of things need to be done and created to realize any improvement out of the discontent and the war chest (or even to amass a war chest, much less disburse it!).

Oh dear, I'm starting to rant, aren't I? <wipes foam from lips> Sorry.

You've spent a lot of time thinking deeply about something that's very important, and you make a lot of important points. But please don't sell the scaffolding short, because it holds everything up. And as any construction worker would tell you, when the scaffolding fails people get hurt.

Or to put it another way: "Heart and soul" only go so far if you can't coordinate the fists and feet.

"Ideas or the lack of them can cause disease." - Kurt Vonnegut

by dvx (dvx.clt ät gmail dotcom) on Fri Dec 14th, 2007 at 01:39:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Then there was the one about the Irish expedition to Mount Everest that had to stop because they ran out of scaffolding....
by ChrisCook (cojockathotmaildotcom) on Fri Dec 14th, 2007 at 04:05:51 PM EST
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Wholeheartedly agree, dvx.

The day in, day out, slog of explanations, meetings, more explanations, and communication is where any membership run organization succeeds or fails.  

A doo run-run-run, a doo run-run

by ATinNM on Fri Dec 14th, 2007 at 10:26:41 PM EST
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Sorry. I didn't mean to suggest that scaffolding and organisation are unimportant. They are not. The point that I was clumsily trying to make was that the scaffolding and organisation should be suited to the purpose of the organisation, rather than the other way around.

And I think that to some extent, the commenter who remarked that traditional organisations will need to change substantially is right - both on account of technological developments and due to the scale of a truly global organisation. But that doesn't mean that I'm not sceptical of the kind of techno-panacea that's so often peddled as an alternative to the hard work of organising labour/limiting GHG emissions/adressing global inequality/etc.

- Jake

Ceterum censeo Chicago esse delendam

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Thu Dec 20th, 2007 at 09:24:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

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