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The Clinton's receive rave reviews in Ireland because of his very committed and skilled support of the peace process.  From an Irish, and probably from a European point of view, ANY Clinton Presidency is likely to be a damn sight better than what we have had with the Bush's.

I don't dispute that Hilary is an establishment candidate, but she is from the more progressive side of the establishment, and very possibly the the most progressive candidate with any realistic chance of being elected.

Does Obama have any more substance that Kerry, Dukakis, Mondale or McGovern?  Probably less.  We have had enough good losers, especially if the alternative is Mike Huckabee!

Montereyan's thesis of a forthcoming Progressive majority is still very much in the future, and a huge amount of organisational work will be required to mobilise that majority even if it does emerge.

There is no better polical organiser than Bill Clinton.  He can do the long-term stuff in the field whilst she runs the day to day stuff from the Oval Office.  From a European perspective its the best chance we've got.  Has Obama even been to Europe?

Index of Frank's Diaries

by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot dotty communists) on Tue Dec 4th, 2007 at 07:03:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Has Obama even been to Europe?

Yes.

Barack Obama - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

As a member of the Democratic minority in the 109th Congress, Obama co-sponsored the enactment of conventional weapons control and transparency legislation, and made official trips to Eastern Europe, the Middle East, and Africa.


A vote for PES is a vote for EPP! A vote for EPP is a vote for PES! Support the coalition, vote EPP-PES in 2009!
by A swedish kind of death on Tue Dec 4th, 2007 at 08:44:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Thanks.  I hadn't even bothered to check.  However the perception in Europe is that he is more likely to look West rather than East in terms of trade and political alliances.  One quick trip to eastern Europe hardly speaks to an abiding concern to build a close relationship with the EU.

Index of Frank's Diaries
by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot dotty communists) on Tue Dec 4th, 2007 at 09:02:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Being a good organiser only counts as positive point if what they organise is a good thing. Otherwise, they organise bad things. I note that the Clintons failed to organise universal health care in 1993, and the lesson they 'learnt' from it was to not to try harder, but to not even try and cozy up with the establishment, which in Bill's case also meant to allow Greenspan free rein in letting the bubbles economy expand -- an economy that was fed on foreign credits (which more than balanced the trade deficit ballooning under Clinton's second term), including European capital, which was doubly bad for us (capital drain from our economies and much of that lost once the bubble burst); and at the same time the Clinton government and its appointees in IMF and World Bank pushed the neoliberal 'reform' recipe across the world, causing spectacular crashes from Argentina to Russia.

What is worse: a good loser, or a Carter interlude that does not even dare to be as progressive as Carter was?  Especially if Fox News et al will be successful in making a President Hillary inherit the blame for failure in Iraq, and other crises including energy issues on which her establishment 'liberalism' would make her too timid to take bold enough government action: then we'll get someone much worse than Huckabee in 2012. (Jeb Bush, anyone? Can you imagine the damage potential of a Dubya with brains?) On Obama and the others you compared him to, sadly I think Obama has even less substance than Kerry, who didn't have much either whatever Fox News cried about his liberal extremism, and Hillary 2008 even less.

Considering that Hillary voted for and argued for the Iraq War, and that the Democrat foreign policy establishment (Albright et al, Brzezinski et al) are very much in favour of Empire Light with Europe kept under US wings as vassals (Albright used to chide European leaders for standing up to Bush, not for the policy reasons but the 'alliance' behaviour), I wouldn't take any comfort in Clinton's greater international experience.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Wed Dec 5th, 2007 at 04:05:49 AM EST
[ Parent ]
"...To put it in a terminology that harkens back to the more brutal age of ancient empires, the three grand imperatives of imperial geostrategy are to prevent collusion and maintain security dependence among the vassals, to keep tributaries pliant and protected, and to keep the barbarians from coming together." Zbigniew Brzezinski: The Grand Chessboard, p. 40


*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Wed Dec 5th, 2007 at 04:07:35 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I'm not really arguing against you, but it does depend on what you regard as possible in 2008 in the absence of Montereyan's projected emergent progressive majority.  Certainly Clinton's early (and perhaps naive and incompetent) health care reforms were defeated ignominiously in the face of a very hostile congress.  

No President can effect a significant reform program without at least the passive support of Congress, and so it is crucial that the Democrats can win both Houses in 2008, preferably with a significant majority because some Democratic legislators are very conservative as well and might block more radical reform proposals.

I base my support for a Clinton Presidency on their demonstrated ability to listen and make common cause with the rest of the world, and particularly with Europe, an alliance which is crucial to strong collective action on Global warming, peak oil, Iraq, Iran, Russia, and sub Saharan Africa and just about any global issue you can think of.

Some of the Republican candidates appear to be retreating into a xenophobic fortress America approach which could be disastrous in terms of tackling global issues.  Obama is very much an unknown quantity in all of this and his inexperience tells against him.  He could be very good, but will be allowed to implement a progressive program even if elected?

Index of Frank's Diaries

by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot dotty communists) on Wed Dec 5th, 2007 at 08:33:46 AM EST
[ Parent ]

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