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JakeS:
He has some straaange ideas about a universal consciousness-field

I would say this is not so much Chopra as Rupert Sheldrake:

Morphic field - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Morphic field is a term introduced by British biologist Rupert Sheldrake, the major proponent of this concept, through his Hypothesis of Formative Causation in the early 1980's. It is described as consisting of patterns that govern the development of forms, structures and arrangements. As a new theory challenging established concepts, Sheldrake's theories have received criticism by some members of the scientific establishment, have been ignored by others and have been taken as a possible new line of research by borderline researchers.

I do not like Chopra very much, he is not an original thinker - he is taking his ideas from different sources, what he sales has been thought by others before him, however, he is good at marketing.

by Fran (fran at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Dec 24th, 2007 at 05:56:14 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I met Sheldrake at a seminar once: very interesting guy.

He was talking about the "extra sensory perception" of animals. ie things they "pick up" that we don't.

There are plenty of things out there relating to human and animal consciousness etc that science cannot currently explain.

"Any economic unit can emit money. The serious problem is to get it accepted" Hyman Minsky

by ChrisCook (cojockathotmaildotcom) on Mon Dec 24th, 2007 at 07:10:36 AM EST
[ Parent ]
ChrisCook:
He was talking about the "extra sensory perception" of animals. ie things they "pick up" that we don't.
You mean the fact that the human sensory system doesn't pick up all the physical stimuli that exist?

Like different sizes and shapes of vocal elements and auditory elements allowing for the production and perception of sounds humans cannot? Or the fact that bees can see in the ultaviolet, or snakes in the infrared? Or the fact that dogs have much more sensitive smell, both in intensity and variety? Or...?

How is that extra sensory? Maybe extra human-sensory, but still not unphysical nor supernatural.

We have met the enemy, and he is us — Pogo

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Dec 24th, 2007 at 07:19:48 AM EST
[ Parent ]
No, beyond that. He was referring to other behaviours more along the lines of telepathy.

"Any economic unit can emit money. The serious problem is to get it accepted" Hyman Minsky
by ChrisCook (cojockathotmaildotcom) on Mon Dec 24th, 2007 at 07:48:27 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Such as?

We have met the enemy, and he is us — Pogo
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Dec 24th, 2007 at 07:49:33 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Awareness of a remote event: someone's death, for instance, or someone's approach.

"Any economic unit can emit money. The serious problem is to get it accepted" Hyman Minsky
by ChrisCook (cojockathotmaildotcom) on Mon Dec 24th, 2007 at 07:56:38 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Such as this?

The Register: Cat senses impending death

Dr David Dosa, also of of Brown University, elaborated that on one occasion Oscar had curled up on a female patient's bed, prompting staff to "make calls and set up vigil". When the family arrived, the grandson asked his mother why the cat was there, and she explained: "He is here to help Grandma get to heaven." Grandma died an hour later.

Thomas Graves, a feline expert and chief of small animal medicine at the University of Illinois College of Veterinary Medicine, described Oscar's actions as "such a cat thing to do", but admitted: "Those things are hard to study. I think probably dogs and cats can sense things we can't."

Dr Teno concluded: "I don't think this is a psychic cat. I think there's probably a biochemical explanation."

Someone's approach is not a remote event, and it is not an event that cannot be conceivably be sensed. Humans have built motion detectors to supplement our senses.

We have met the enemy, and he is us — Pogo
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Dec 24th, 2007 at 08:16:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]
When I say "approach", I mean when an animal senses someone at a distance way beyond any possibility that a conventional (animal) sense of smell, hearing etc can detect.

"Any economic unit can emit money. The serious problem is to get it accepted" Hyman Minsky
by ChrisCook (cojockathotmaildotcom) on Mon Dec 24th, 2007 at 08:21:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]
If the animal's sharper-than-human senses cannot detect someone approaching and we cannot effectively communicate with animals, how can you make the claim that their behaviour is a reaction to someone "approaching"?

We have met the enemy, and he is us — Pogo
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Dec 24th, 2007 at 08:43:12 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I think they're talking about the observation that dogs are often observed to spend more time at the front door of a house when their owner is about to return home. Even granting that this is an actual effect and not just confirmation bias (which is by no means certain), the fact that most people return from work on pretty regular hours makes this is an example of learned behaviour that would have done Pavlov proud. But for some reason a lot of woo-woos seem to prefer viewing it as an example of telepathy.

- Jake

If you only spend 20 minutes of the rest of your life on economics, go spend them here.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Tue Dec 25th, 2007 at 02:08:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Oh, by the way...

Wikipedia: Ethology

Lorenz's collaborator, Niko Tinbergen, argued that ethology always needed to pay attention to four kinds of explanation in any instance of behaviour:

  • Function: how does the behaviour impact on the animal's chances of survival and reproduction?
  • Causation: what are the stimuli that elicit the response, and how has it been modified by recent learning?
  • Development: how does the behaviour change with age, and what early experiences are necessary for the behaviour to be shown?
  • Evolutionary history: how does the behaviour compare with similar behaviour in related species, and how might it have arisen through the process of phylogeny?


We have met the enemy, and he is us — Pogo
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Dec 24th, 2007 at 08:19:35 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Taking his ideas from different sources is really what I liked most about him because he picked out what he found best from science, culture and tradition, to integrate it into a different view of health and medicine.

You are absolutely right about his marketing and I am still staying out of discussing other sciences, about which he could be a heretic.

Our knowledge has surpassed our wisdom. -Charu Saxena.

by metavision on Mon Dec 24th, 2007 at 09:52:48 AM EST
[ Parent ]
metavision:
taying out of discussing other sciences, about which he could be a heretic.

Now I am curious what that might be, I have read some of his work, but didn't consider anything heretic - but then maybe I am heretic too. :-)

by Fran (fran at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Dec 24th, 2007 at 10:38:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]
It must be the part about material sciences Jake and Migeru have read and I have missed, but they quote around him for some reason.  I'm no help.  

Our knowledge has surpassed our wisdom. -Charu Saxena.
by metavision on Mon Dec 24th, 2007 at 01:10:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]
He's not a heretic, he's a snake-oil salesman who uses scientific-sounding catchphrases to peddle his wares.

Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: Deepak Chopra

He claims to be influenced by the teachings of Vedanta and the Bhagavad Gita from his native India, and quantum physics.

...

Principal themes

Many of Chopra's themes and beliefs are stated in his first book, "Creating Health" in 1986. He launched himself as a staunch advocate of the interconnection between mind and body, advocating meditation and self-awareness as primary factors in both illness and healing. He deepened these themes in "Quantum Healing" (1989), where he examined the mysterious phenomenon of spontaneous healing of cancer. Here he introduced quantum physics as a means of understanding the mind-body connection, arguing -- as he would in many other books -- that consciousness is the basic foundation of nature and the universe.

...

Criticism

Chopra has been both appreciated and criticized for his frequent references to the relationship of quantum mechanics to healing processes, a connection that has drawn skepticism from some quarters because it can be considered as possibly contributing to the general confusion in the popular press regarding quantum measurement, decoherence and the Heisenberg uncertainty principle.[7]

Biologist PZ Myers has also criticized these claims in depth. [11] In October 2006, Myers again criticized a blog post by Chopra [12] for displaying a lack of understanding of genetics. [13] Fellow science blogger Orac has also criticized Chopra's views [14]

In 1998, Chopra was awarded the Ig Nobel Prize in physics for "his unique interpretation of quantum physics as it applies to life, liberty, and the pursuit of economic happiness." [15]



We have met the enemy, and he is us — Pogo
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Dec 24th, 2007 at 01:23:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

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