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I met Sheldrake at a seminar once: very interesting guy.

He was talking about the "extra sensory perception" of animals. ie things they "pick up" that we don't.

There are plenty of things out there relating to human and animal consciousness etc that science cannot currently explain.

"Any economic unit can emit money. The serious problem is to get it accepted" Hyman Minsky

by ChrisCook (cojockathotmaildotcom) on Mon Dec 24th, 2007 at 07:10:36 AM EST
[ Parent ]
ChrisCook:
He was talking about the "extra sensory perception" of animals. ie things they "pick up" that we don't.
You mean the fact that the human sensory system doesn't pick up all the physical stimuli that exist?

Like different sizes and shapes of vocal elements and auditory elements allowing for the production and perception of sounds humans cannot? Or the fact that bees can see in the ultaviolet, or snakes in the infrared? Or the fact that dogs have much more sensitive smell, both in intensity and variety? Or...?

How is that extra sensory? Maybe extra human-sensory, but still not unphysical nor supernatural.

We have met the enemy, and he is us — Pogo

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Dec 24th, 2007 at 07:19:48 AM EST
[ Parent ]
No, beyond that. He was referring to other behaviours more along the lines of telepathy.

"Any economic unit can emit money. The serious problem is to get it accepted" Hyman Minsky
by ChrisCook (cojockathotmaildotcom) on Mon Dec 24th, 2007 at 07:48:27 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Such as?

We have met the enemy, and he is us — Pogo
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Dec 24th, 2007 at 07:49:33 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Awareness of a remote event: someone's death, for instance, or someone's approach.

"Any economic unit can emit money. The serious problem is to get it accepted" Hyman Minsky
by ChrisCook (cojockathotmaildotcom) on Mon Dec 24th, 2007 at 07:56:38 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Such as this?

The Register: Cat senses impending death

Dr David Dosa, also of of Brown University, elaborated that on one occasion Oscar had curled up on a female patient's bed, prompting staff to "make calls and set up vigil". When the family arrived, the grandson asked his mother why the cat was there, and she explained: "He is here to help Grandma get to heaven." Grandma died an hour later.

Thomas Graves, a feline expert and chief of small animal medicine at the University of Illinois College of Veterinary Medicine, described Oscar's actions as "such a cat thing to do", but admitted: "Those things are hard to study. I think probably dogs and cats can sense things we can't."

Dr Teno concluded: "I don't think this is a psychic cat. I think there's probably a biochemical explanation."

Someone's approach is not a remote event, and it is not an event that cannot be conceivably be sensed. Humans have built motion detectors to supplement our senses.

We have met the enemy, and he is us — Pogo
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Dec 24th, 2007 at 08:16:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]
When I say "approach", I mean when an animal senses someone at a distance way beyond any possibility that a conventional (animal) sense of smell, hearing etc can detect.

"Any economic unit can emit money. The serious problem is to get it accepted" Hyman Minsky
by ChrisCook (cojockathotmaildotcom) on Mon Dec 24th, 2007 at 08:21:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]
If the animal's sharper-than-human senses cannot detect someone approaching and we cannot effectively communicate with animals, how can you make the claim that their behaviour is a reaction to someone "approaching"?

We have met the enemy, and he is us — Pogo
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Dec 24th, 2007 at 08:43:12 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I think they're talking about the observation that dogs are often observed to spend more time at the front door of a house when their owner is about to return home. Even granting that this is an actual effect and not just confirmation bias (which is by no means certain), the fact that most people return from work on pretty regular hours makes this is an example of learned behaviour that would have done Pavlov proud. But for some reason a lot of woo-woos seem to prefer viewing it as an example of telepathy.

- Jake

If you only spend 20 minutes of the rest of your life on economics, go spend them here.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Tue Dec 25th, 2007 at 02:08:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Oh, by the way...

Wikipedia: Ethology

Lorenz's collaborator, Niko Tinbergen, argued that ethology always needed to pay attention to four kinds of explanation in any instance of behaviour:

  • Function: how does the behaviour impact on the animal's chances of survival and reproduction?
  • Causation: what are the stimuli that elicit the response, and how has it been modified by recent learning?
  • Development: how does the behaviour change with age, and what early experiences are necessary for the behaviour to be shown?
  • Evolutionary history: how does the behaviour compare with similar behaviour in related species, and how might it have arisen through the process of phylogeny?


We have met the enemy, and he is us — Pogo
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Dec 24th, 2007 at 08:19:35 AM EST
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