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Granted this would be a reversal of a long standing policy of the Turks, but what if they did a turn around and actually came out in support of an independent Kurdish state?

I think a unified Iraq is now a lost cause. What the Turks could negotiate for the Kurds would be a discount supply of oil and half control of a pipeline from Kurd-controlled Kirkuk to the Mediterranean or Europe, in exchange for recognition of the state at the least and possibly a referendum to the south-eastern part of Turkey to see where the people wanted to remain: Turkey or a new Kurdish state. Not to mention, I think the long war between Turkey and the PKK could possibly then end.

I recognize that I'm not an expert on this, but it would seem to me that Turkey would gain from a Kurdish state. I think an alliance between Turkey and a Kurdish state might be mutually strategically beneficial. But then, perhaps I am being too naïve of history and world politics?

by Magnifico on Tue Feb 13th, 2007 at 04:01:11 PM EST
for quite some time with a blind eye turned by the US would make negotiations politically difficult to say the least. Arabs and Turkmen in Kirkuk particularly but also other parts of the Kurdish enclave have been suffering very badly. The ethnic make up of Kirkuk today is probably not accurately known by anyone but it is fair to assume the Turkmen, Sunni Arabs and tiny Christian minority outnumber the Kurds. The Kurds have been busily trying to drive out as many Arabs and Turkmen as they can while importing as many Kurds as they can before referendum on the city status. Before this all started Turkey claimed there were the same amount of Turkmen as Kurds in the city and were not happy that the Iraqi national constitution described the Turkmen up there as an ethnic minority alongside the estimated 1% Christian ethnic minority.
This could be messy, but while we sit and consdier the geopolitical implications of all this we should also strongly condemn the large Kurdish ethnic cleansing operation that goes on as we talk even if our useless media and governments like to urn a blind eye to it.
by observer393 on Wed Feb 14th, 2007 at 01:10:43 AM EST
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This might make - to an external observer - sense. However, the idea of Serbia getting rid of Kosovo, also makes sense to an external observer - yet that's not how a majority of Serbs see it. And I do not know of any country that would willingly cede territory, anywhere in the world

In Turkey, the situation is even more complicated, since there still exists an imperial "large power" mentality and the military are calling the shots, and their role defending Turkish territorial integrity is a prime directive. Not to mention that chasing seccessionists and "antiturkish terrorists", helps legitimize their broad role in Turkish politics.

Also, note, what the Kurds in Turkey are asking for is autonomy and broad political and cultural rights - as Kurds.

Having said that, the option of giving the Kurds aytonomy and acting as some sort of "guarantor" for a new Kurdish state in N. Iraq, makes a lot of sense, but I don't see Turkish politics being versatile enough to recognize this as a win-win situation...

The road of excess leads to the palace of wisdom - William Blake

by talos (mihalis at gmail dot com) on Wed Feb 14th, 2007 at 03:52:42 AM EST
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The reason why a possible win-win isn't recognized is because of fear of the unknown. Fear of a future without economic stability, of what happens when the oil is gone. Turkey is simply thinking of a future in which no one--least of all the United States--has an interest in the region. Maybe that's 100 years from now. But at that point, many Turks can envision the Kurdish problem becoming an irredentist 5th column. No one knows what the future holds, and that's why a bold move by Turkey--against its current national policy--seems so farfetched.
by Upstate NY on Wed Feb 14th, 2007 at 10:55:25 AM EST
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That, and the fact that the current zeitgeist seems to consider win-win resolutions of problems somehow immoral.
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Wed Feb 14th, 2007 at 10:58:08 AM EST
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Turkey reversing course is, admittedly, far-fetched.

But the uncertain future would be exactly the motivation I would need if I was Turkey to try to peacefully and strategically resolve the differences with the Kurds now. I think nations and peoples are more likely to be peaceful with each other if they have a history of mutually beneficial economic relationships. Such a relationship between Turkey and a Kurdish state could serve as a good foundation for on-going peace after the oil is gone.

I agree that Turkey is unlikely to do anything radical or bold in this area. But I think it is unfortunate that Turkey can't or isn't permitted to play a larger role in the Middle East. Because of and despite of their historic role — the Ottoman Empire — in the past, I feel they could serve an important stabilizing role in parts of the Middle East such as Kurdistan.

Again, I am likely to be way off base here with my assumptions.

by Magnifico on Wed Feb 14th, 2007 at 12:36:22 PM EST
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People over in that part of the world tend to take a much longer view of history. One might say this is indeed the problem, when you get right down to it. But in many ways I can appreciate and admire the long view as well.

When we're discussing degrees of power, democracy, soft force, human rights, etc., in the region, we can't forget that some countries are big, such as Turkey, and they have powerful militaries, and can defend their interests. Others, such as Syria for example, are relatively weak and have become international pariahs for their support of terrorism. However, they too believe they are defending their interests--by what they term the best means possible. So, in that sense, it's hard to see how Turkey and Syria could establish common ground. Turkey has historically seen itself as a power broker not because it is in the Middle East, but because it girds Russia and Eastern Europe, and it lies on a transcontinental root for resources. Other than providing airbases for Western militaries, Turkey really hasn't been a lynchpin in Middle East discussions.

But I will say that the new Turkish PM Erdogan is the first in many years that has aggressively sought close relations with the Arab world. In Turkey sometimes people perceive these new relationships as threats because of Erdogan's party's background with Islam.

by Upstate NY on Wed Feb 14th, 2007 at 03:06:03 PM EST
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Well yes, however one can argue that the possibility that the Kurds become an irredentist fifth column (a lot of them are already - if you have talked with Kurdish activists, before Ocalan's capture, outside of Turkey, you know what I mean) is made more probable by the combination of ethnic cleansing, occupation army tactics and cultural persecution that has characterized Turkey's treatment of the Kurds these past few decades. The Turkish political establishment (and the military-economic complex behind it) has only managed to exacerbate the problem by refusing to talk (indeed persecuting) even with the most peaceful of Kurdish activists.

Keeping the Kurdish issue alive as a "national threat" (by treating as treason any discussion of Kurdish human rights) is part of the way the political and military elites in Turkey perpetuate their hegemony over society. There's nothing like a permanent internal threat to justify repression, lack of democracy and military involvement in politics.    

The road of excess leads to the palace of wisdom - William Blake

by talos (mihalis at gmail dot com) on Wed Feb 14th, 2007 at 06:35:31 PM EST
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I agree with both your points. Especially the second. I'm just imagining that, in terms of threats (real or perceived) the Turks prefer to deal with the PKK as it is constituted now, but they truly fear such a movement backed by a relatively strong state. Then support might come in the form of both money and arms, to a much greater degree than the PKK have now.

I agree with the idea as well that a Turkish-Kurdish friendship would suit the interest of both peoples. I'm just speculating that the fear of the future is an obstacle for Turkish thinking.

by Upstate NY on Wed Feb 14th, 2007 at 09:16:48 PM EST
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I'm just imagining that, in terms of threats (real or perceived) the Turks prefer to deal with the PKK as it is constituted now, but they truly fear such a movement backed by a relatively strong state.

Yes, I see what you mean... However there is a counterargument that if Turkey supports a Kurdish state in Iraq (I mean actively), given that its economy will depend on a large part on Turkey, it might come to a general arrangement, by which it grants autonomy rights to its own Kurds (and possibly apologizes for "past mistakes") and reaches some sort of agreement with the Iraqi Kurds as per not supporting secessionism. In fact were Turkey to play it smart, in an ideal world it will have an active ally in its South and stop the Kurdish insurgency inside its borders.

This is all theoretical, mind you. The current mentality (and the interests noted above), I agree with you, guarantees that no such arrangement is possible - it's not even stateable by a Turkish politician without risking some sort of judicial adventure.

The road of excess leads to the palace of wisdom - William Blake

by talos (mihalis at gmail dot com) on Thu Feb 15th, 2007 at 06:41:06 AM EST
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That would be truly forward and amazing thinking, especially the "past mistakes" part, and of course so many nations around the world are deficient in that regard.
by Upstate NY on Thu Feb 15th, 2007 at 09:52:07 PM EST
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