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Heed the mathematicians!

Let's sample Kruger National Park from Wikipedia:
Current population (2006): ± 13.500
In 2004: 11,670 elephants (official census)

Rate of change per year: ~900

They estimate Kruger National Park (not the Greater Kruger Area) can hold some 8000 elephants.

On Reproduction:


Females (cows) reach sexual maturity at around 9-12 years of age and become pregnant for the first time, on average, around age 13. They can reproduce until ages 55-60. Females give birth at intervals of about every 5 years. An elephant's gestation (pregnancy) period lasts about 22 months (630-660 days), the longest gestation period of any mammal, after which one calf typically is born. Twins are rare.

I hope that can make you happy.

by Nomad on Tue Feb 27th, 2007 at 05:57:11 AM EST
[ Parent ]
It's not to make me happy, it's to estimate the scale of the long-term culling program.

"It's the statue, man, The Statue."
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Feb 27th, 2007 at 06:04:06 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Estimating the scale of the long-term culling program doesn't make you happy?
by Nomad on Tue Feb 27th, 2007 at 06:39:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]
It's a necessity, not a choice.

Arithmetic doesn't make me particularly happy, no.

"It's the statue, man, The Statue."

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Feb 27th, 2007 at 06:41:25 AM EST
[ Parent ]
A google search reveals a life span of about 70 years.

Pregnancy for 22 months every 5 years for an average of 47 fertile years means on average about 1/4 of females are pregnant at any given time, and under 1/7 of them give birth on any given year.

Assume a 50/50 sex split among the population and you get a birth rate of just over 1/15 per year.

"It's the statue, man, The Statue."

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Feb 27th, 2007 at 06:16:30 AM EST
[ Parent ]
A birth rate of approximately 1/15 for a total elephant population of 11.670 gives me 778 new elephants a year. Which is slightly off compared to the back-of-the-envelope 900, but considerable enough.

Now extrapolate from 2004 to 2020...

by Nomad on Tue Feb 27th, 2007 at 06:44:59 AM EST
[ Parent ]
That's within the margins of error for fertile years, lifespan and male/female ratio.

"It's the statue, man, The Statue."
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Feb 27th, 2007 at 06:53:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Ok, so we're in the right ball-park. If you remove 1000 elephants a year you'll never get to the disaster scenario of 2020.

So, what to do with 1000 elephants this year?

  • sell them to zoos or natural parks elsewhere
  • release them in the wild where there is an interest in restoring the populations
  • cull the oldest/sickest animals
  • allow recreational hunting
How much of each can you do?

And, whatever you do, it's going to cost money to deal with 1000 elephants. If you end up culling them, harvesting the ivory and selling it would cover the costs.

"It's the statue, man, The Statue."

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Feb 27th, 2007 at 06:57:33 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I'm still going for the option to give each continent 200 elephants and let them figure out what to do with them...

#  sell them to zoos or natural parks elsewhere

Done that. Almost all parks here are already straining or are at their limit, and as stormy writes below, elephants don't travel well.

# release them in the wild where there is an interest in restoring the populations

In the "wild"? Describe that one please... You mean outside reservation and game park fences?

# cull the oldest/sickest animals & selling the ivory

That's my diary about - now all we need is to convince IFAW and the rest of the world.

# allow recreational hunting

Already happening in Game Parks, but prohibited in SANparks - such as Kruger.

I'm at a loss, honestly.

by Nomad on Tue Feb 27th, 2007 at 07:21:16 AM EST
[ Parent ]
# release them in the wild where there is an interest in restoring the populations

In the "wild"? Describe that one please... You mean outside reservation and game park fences?

Yes.

"It's the statue, man, The Statue."

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Feb 27th, 2007 at 07:28:30 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Though TSP says upthread that elephants sent from South Africa to Mozambique simply "walked back".

"It's the statue, man, The Statue."
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Feb 27th, 2007 at 07:29:49 AM EST
[ Parent ]
that comment was about the elephant territorial behaviour and transplanting the elephants in the Great Limpopo area - which has open borders towards SA. I think.
by Nomad on Tue Feb 27th, 2007 at 10:12:38 AM EST
[ Parent ]
That's the Kenyan model, and even they call their designated areas "game reserves". I don't know, but I don't think a fence-less game reserve will be embraced.

Practically your solution means more designated space for game reserves or to use Melanchton's analogue: a bigger apartment. The creation of game reserves is still happening, but it is often a community effort, making it a long term and only a partial solution to the current problem.

by Nomad on Tue Feb 27th, 2007 at 10:26:56 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Are any Game Parks overpopulated?

"It's the statue, man, The Statue."
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Feb 27th, 2007 at 12:56:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]
In honesty, this will need a lengthy answer because of the complexities within the Private Game Reserves in SA - which I only barely understand myself. It depends on lots of things.

It also is a good opportunity to tie in the other big controversial topic which has just seen SA regulation (a first step?): canned hunting. But I don't have the time today. So I'll have to settle for the short answer.

The short answer is: not all of them are overpopulated on elephants. Here's a Wikipedia list of the National Parks (most of them regulated under SANparks) and Game Reserves under private ownership.

But not all of the private reserves will take elephants - because of private ownership, and the type of tourism you want to attract for your reserve. If you want to have tourists mountainbiking through your reserve, you're not so eager to introduce (traumatized?) elephants (or big cats or rhinoceros or... you see the point). As I understood it in 2003, the National Parks are getting quite overcrowded in elephants - with Kruger the most acute.

by Nomad on Wed Feb 28th, 2007 at 03:19:06 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Rich people love shooting big animals.

So if there are too many elephants around, invite big game hunters to shoot the elephants and demand top dollar for it.

Comparative advantage and all that.

Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.

by Starvid (arvid.hallen at gmail.com) on Tue Feb 27th, 2007 at 12:53:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]
There are some basic safety issues with the idea of hunting in an area that's got lots of tourists running around in their cars....
by the stormy present (stormypresent aaaaaaat gmail etc) on Tue Feb 27th, 2007 at 02:53:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Nothing that can't be overcome with regulation. No one who hasn't got a hunting license can shoot, you need to bring local guides, you are not allowed to shoot at the tourists etc.

We have lots of people running around in our forests, shooting 200.000 elks every year. The civilian casualties are usually very small.


Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.

by Starvid (arvid.hallen at gmail.com) on Tue Feb 27th, 2007 at 05:48:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]
You may be underestimating the number of tourists we're talking about.  I'll have to go dig up my picture of a traffic jam that developed on a road in Kruger as a herd of water buffalo meandered across the road.  It was pretty impressive.
by the stormy present (stormypresent aaaaaaat gmail etc) on Tue Feb 27th, 2007 at 05:59:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I am sure it was.

But you need quite a lot of hunters to kill 200.000 elks every year, too. We have a higher per capita gun ownership than the US. Practically every male in the northern two thirds of the country is a hunter.

Vision is far better on the savanna than in the forest too. And it should be a lot harder to confuse an elephant than an elk with a Thai berry picker. Or tourist.

With the right regulation and some common sense, collateral damage should be very limited or non-existent.

Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.

by Starvid (arvid.hallen at gmail.com) on Tue Feb 27th, 2007 at 06:56:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Three problems here:
  1. Hunting in SANparks right now is prohibited. Kruger falls under SANparks. Full stop. It will need massive regulation to lift the ban and -that- I'm sure will erupt another global environmental firestorm by organisations who will threaten to stop funding if they announce plans to lift the ban. Funding which was still needed (at least in 2003). In other words: conversation practice in SA can (but not necessarily always) be hostage by the whims of western environmental groups.

  2. You don't shoot an elephant as "easily" as an elk. (Note that I'm well aware that a good shot at an antelope takes considerable hunting skill.) You will need training, you will need extensive supervision and they will charge you extraordinarily (~$10.000 or more for one elephant which is -only- the trophy fee). Shooting an elephant is only reserved for the Cheney's - the super-rich who want to. As a solution to the elephant overpopulation, I can't see how it could work.

  3. Echoing stormy's point: tourists. The only solution I can see right now is to restrict areas for hunters only. But as I see it now dealing with tourism appears the minor issue.
by Nomad on Wed Feb 28th, 2007 at 08:08:08 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Market it as adventure tourism.
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Wed Feb 28th, 2007 at 08:29:06 AM EST
[ Parent ]
In other words: conversation practice in SA can (but not necessarily always) be hostage by the whims of western environmental groups.

I can't find a pic of it, but there is a sign near my house, I think it's painted on a wall.  It says:

You Are Now Entering The Brighton Laines Conversation Area

...which I like...that someone painted it...then maybe a few days later...or months later...stood back, looked at it, frowned...then...slaps head with hand!

...but I liked the idea that it was, indeed a conversation area...too.

;)

Don't fight forces, use them R. Buckminster Fuller.

by rg (leopold dot lepster at google mail dot com) on Wed Feb 28th, 2007 at 08:34:47 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I was hoping no one would notice... I'm starting to rely too much on the spell-checker that comes with Firefox. And since conversation is a perfect English word...

Ack!

by Nomad on Wed Feb 28th, 2007 at 08:52:36 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Impressive may not be the word I'm looking for. Ghastly gets closer.

From Wikipedia:

by Nomad on Wed Feb 28th, 2007 at 03:20:43 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Yeah.
by the stormy present (stormypresent aaaaaaat gmail etc) on Wed Feb 28th, 2007 at 03:32:11 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Just make sure you don't allow Cheney to hunt there.

"It's the statue, man, The Statue."
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Feb 27th, 2007 at 05:52:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

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