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Nothing about finance is taught in school :).

99.99% of the population doesn't know that private bank create money and not central banks.

by Laurent GUERBY on Sat Mar 17th, 2007 at 02:33:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]
You stole my line!


"Any economic unit can emit money. The serious problem is to get it accepted" Hyman Minsky
by ChrisCook (cojockathotmaildotcom) on Sat Mar 17th, 2007 at 03:31:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]
It seems a very important subject to me - not for the profit vision, but simply to understand it as a structure, because wherever you stand in society, it affects your life.

I passed A-Level economics in Britain (with Art and Eng Lit) but I never had any real idea of how it applied to the world I was living in.

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Sat Mar 17th, 2007 at 03:37:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The first time I took Economics (an accountancy paper) I failed it - it was the first paper in ANYTHING I had ever failed.

It bore no relationship to Reality as I understood it. I passed second time around by learning the crap parrot fashion, and forgot it for 20 years.

Now I know what the problem is (as least to my own satisfaction). The assumptions used are total and utter bollocks.

"Any economic unit can emit money. The serious problem is to get it accepted" Hyman Minsky

by ChrisCook (cojockathotmaildotcom) on Sat Mar 17th, 2007 at 03:45:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Churchill - when you get ME involved in an economics diary, you really have done a service to mankind ;-)

And Chris, your professional view of the bollocks is inspirational: I have never been exposed to so many challenging new ideas in one place, as here at ET over the last couple of years.

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Sat Mar 17th, 2007 at 03:51:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Nor me, Sven. The Veblen stuff currently is just the latest, but there's always something new.

Btw. Did I ever e-mail you the "Monster"? Branson would love it, but I never got near him.

"Any economic unit can emit money. The serious problem is to get it accepted" Hyman Minsky

by ChrisCook (cojockathotmaildotcom) on Sat Mar 17th, 2007 at 03:54:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]
You did not email me with it. I don't really have contact with Richard any more. He married Joan, one of my best friends then - in fact I kind of introduced them - but I am surely just a distant memory now. It has been 30 years - even though we have been in brief contact several times since.

But I did open his mind to two things: one was how to remove a watch from somebodies wrist wihout them knowing (A very drunken evening at a Russian restaurant in Helsinki), and hot air ballooning, on a Sunday in Nummela about 1976.

For these, I ask you forgivenance...

But he taught me far more than I ever taught him, by miles.

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Sat Mar 17th, 2007 at 05:34:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]
A long, long time ago, in a Galaxy far far away....

"Any economic unit can emit money. The serious problem is to get it accepted" Hyman Minsky
by ChrisCook (cojockathotmaildotcom) on Sat Mar 17th, 2007 at 05:46:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Just! (in the Finnish meaning).

Don't try to tell me you don't have some heroes from way back in your first decade on earth that didn't affect your present life?

Chris - we are boys still - and hold on to it. We can never be as altruistic as we were then. All my values stem from my family environment; I just didn't get to realise it until recently. I may have done very different things from what my parents envisioned for me, but I did follow their core values eventually. I only took my time to understand what those core values really were - because I looked at them so superficially, then.

I don't think my parents had a plan. But I do think they did their best to use their lives to fulfill themselves, as well as making considerable sacrifices to ensure that their children could also experience that fulfillment. I don't have a plan with my daughters either. Like everyone else, this is a first tiime experience. One cannot have a plan in these circumstances. What one can have is an attitude.

An attitude, IMHO, is essential to acheiving fulfillment

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Sat Mar 17th, 2007 at 06:08:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I can't really disagree.  Econ PHD programs and top level MBA programs do touch on it--but I think the emphasis is very heavily macro-economics.  a lot of our discussions cover micro-economics, finance, as well as macro-economics.  (and actually accounting as well, both government, non-profit and for-profit accouting).  I think you are right and that much of this is learned in RW, the real world.
by wchurchill on Sat Mar 17th, 2007 at 03:40:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I had accounting and econ (macro and micro) courses in my french engineering school.

But the thing is that basic accounting (what accounting is for, how profit and taxes are computed for a company, flux vs stock, not the list of legal accounting stuff :) and how money works (borrowing and lending, state borrowing and how banking work, not econ macro ideology) can easily be taught to 15 years old and it's not done.

I remember arguing that in french econ blog, and I pointed out that lots of my early-age friends that didn't go very far in school (dropping out at 16-20) do run they own small company now so they had to learn that stuff anyway in real life (sometimes through expensive mistakes), but I was laughed away (ivory economics...).

by Laurent GUERBY on Sat Mar 17th, 2007 at 04:30:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]
(borrowing and lending, state borrowing and how banking work, not econ macro ideology) can easily be taught to 15 years old and it's not done.
IMHO, one of the issues about teaching/learning is that you need someone who wants to learn.  And sometimes, relating to myself in my late teens and early '20's, I didn't see the relavance of what people were trying to teach me, in many of my courses.  also some of my profs were unbelievably boring--especially some of the brilliant ones post undergraduate degree, who have written seminal papers and books on important finance topics like option pricing, money policy, etc.  

Maybe as an example of what I'm saying,  I didn't understand probability theory well until I started sneaking into the race track, horses, in my late teens.  I spent a couple of summers there, after I finished my shift at the factory, learning probablilities and odds.  Then much later in life I learned other things in statistics when I was in a position where I had to review manufacturing and quality control data--all of a sudden sampling techniques and all that r-squared kind of stuff made sense almost immediately, because It was helping me understand something I really needed to understand.  (Similar experience when I had to learn sales forecasting, and the importance of sales accuracy and inventory levels to customer service levels.  You know this kind of stuff and put disciplines in place, and your customers love you,,,,because your products are there when they are needed.)  But I could only vaguely get these concepts in school.

You need to relate these topics to people's lives, so they can become interested in them,,,,,and then make them fun.  I have an idea for an accounting book which I may write, because i think I know how to make accounting relavant and interesting.  But it just takes a long time to fit in writing.  But i think I'll get this one done in the next several years.  I have younger friends and younger family members that could really use it--even if I didn't get it published

by wchurchill on Sat Mar 17th, 2007 at 04:48:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]
That's a generic argument for not teaching anything :).

For the people I have in mind, at 15 they already know they'll drop out and this means dealing with money sooner than later (I'm not talking about people that will go to university here).

There's a wikibook project on accounting, looks like it's not very far:

http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Accounting

by Laurent GUERBY on Sun Mar 18th, 2007 at 04:34:40 AM EST
[ Parent ]
When everything now comes pretty easily, it is so hard to learn and practise proper ways.

The context here is that Danny (10) has found a way of skiing that suits him, and isn't much inclined to work at improving his technique. I tried to explain to him that as he gets bigger and heavier, he will grow out of his technique. (Little kids float down a ski run like snowflakes. For a 200-lb adult, the math is way different.) Then his skiing would actually get worse.

Me: "See, son, if you don't work on your form, you'll just go downhill."

He: "Dad, it's skiing. You're supposed to go downhill."

by das monde on Sun Mar 18th, 2007 at 08:27:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The question in education is ALWAYS the underlying motivations in any taught situation. A good teacher is one who can confer that the subject they teach is relevant, and relate it to the set of rules by which the teacher's audience think they live. Then, what they teach has meaning.

Education, in it's true sense ,(IMHO), is mind expansion - learning to look at life through another person'seyes (and brain). Education is an extension of the brain, first within itself, then with people nearby, and finally with people you have never met.

Somehow I feel that, until you start to think of all the people that you have not met yet, you don't quite make the category of being a member of the human race. You become a person who doesn't want to meet new people. But that's just me on a slightly fascist bent,  which, for the moment, for some unexplained reason, seems perfectly logical

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Sat Mar 17th, 2007 at 05:49:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The Monster should be with you: mad( in terms of being TOTALLY outside the Box) but nevertheless feasible....

"Any economic unit can emit money. The serious problem is to get it accepted" Hyman Minsky
by ChrisCook (cojockathotmaildotcom) on Sat Mar 17th, 2007 at 06:08:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The 'what-if' attitude.  There's this grey land between science and art, in which fact and fiction compete for our attention.

One polar extreme is about what we think we've got, and the other is about what we think we could have.

The oscillation between these two views is actually the alternating current of reality.

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Sat Mar 17th, 2007 at 06:29:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The oscillation between these two views is actually the Alternating Current of Reality

Wilde to James Whistler: "I wish I'd said that!"

Whistler: "You will, Oscar, you will...."

Good line, Sven.

"Any economic unit can emit money. The serious problem is to get it accepted" Hyman Minsky

by ChrisCook (cojockathotmaildotcom) on Sat Mar 17th, 2007 at 07:52:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I like this Irish saying: "A stranger is a friend one has not yet met"


"Dieu se rit des hommes qui se plaignent des conséquences alors qu'ils en chérissent les causes" Jacques-Bénigne Bossuet
by Melanchthon on Sat Mar 17th, 2007 at 06:56:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]
that I have to learn to love Colman?

You can't be me, I'm taken
by Sven Triloqvist on Sat Mar 17th, 2007 at 06:59:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]
You just have to shake hands with him, remember?

"It's the statue, man, The Statue."
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sat Mar 17th, 2007 at 07:02:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Oh, that's right! I just can't win against your instant photographic recall ;-).

You can't be me, I'm taken
by Sven Triloqvist on Sat Mar 17th, 2007 at 07:40:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

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