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I didn't think that state institutions was the question.

But then I guess with the right environment then capital inflows did work in at least this country.

The questions we seemed to be trying to answer are:
1. Name a large economy that made a transition from poor/agricultural to prosperous/industrial without the use of protectionism to first build an industrial base.
From: Ask ET: Protectionism and Fledgling Economies

  1. My posed question from above link:  Name a large economy that made a transition from poor/agricultural to prosperous/industrial without the use of protectionism to first build an industrial base.
  2. And this thread question: Can the proponents of market liberalisation point to any advanced industrialised nation that has reached this position through the removal of trade barriers?

Just like most of economics there is no clear answer to say that opening up a country will always lead to "success". But I brought up East Germany to bring up a country that after at least a certain level of liberalization then economic growth and prosperity grew. Whether it is a causal effect is another question.

So by your statement you seem to provide the concept that poor governance results in poor results and good governance results in good results.

On a side note, I am a strong proponent of Liberal Democracies including the positive effects of growth on freedoms of society.

Lastly I would love to see what others think of transition phase of merging the two economies.

------------------------------ Rutherfordian RDRutherford

by Ronald Rutherford (rdrradio1@msn.com) on Mon Apr 16th, 2007 at 11:36:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Anyway, East Germany already had an industrial base before the reunion. It was certainly more developped than southern Italy, for example. (And I'm not sure East Germany is much prosperous now)

Auferre, trucidare, rapere, falsis nominibus imperium; atque, ubi solitudinem faciunt, pacem appellant.
by linca (antonin POINT lucas AROBASE gmail.com) on Tue Apr 17th, 2007 at 03:21:21 AM EST
[ Parent ]
East Germany was heavily industrialised, albeit by the time of reunion the industry was quite uncompetitive with the world markets in general. So like you said Linca, it doesnt really qualify as an industrialising country.

Actually, it fits better into another group I pointed to in this diary, a nation whose closed trade systems after successful industrialisation has led to underinvestment.

by Trond Ove on Tue Apr 17th, 2007 at 03:49:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Another, more complex point I wanted to make, was how I think some of the problems in the unification process in Germany has been the clash between the distinct cultures that developed in the two countries during the Cold War era.

Especially when we talk about the state apparatus, the two parts of Germany developed in two quite different directions. (The different directions within economic policy are so obvious I am not going to extrapolate on them.)

Those differences in attitudes and preconceptions is probably part of why East German developments in many areas have gone so slow. And one of the reasons why Linkspartei rose from the ashes of the SED to become a genuine leftist power block within the BRD in the last few years.

I might try to flesh out these avenues of thought when I finally get around to writing a diary on my thesis on the reconstruction of Germany after the war.

by Trond Ove on Tue Apr 17th, 2007 at 03:58:35 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Just some general comments for now...
If no one or very few benefit from an industrial base then what good is it? I can understand that during an industrial base buildup that the benefits may not "trickle down" very well but at some time (E. Germany) it is either a success or a failure.

Yes, any two countries that merge will have a lot of frictional aspects. That is what made "Goodbye Lenin" such an interesting story line. And not just culturally, it seems like a lot of movement of peoples also.

------------------------------ Rutherfordian RDRutherford

by Ronald Rutherford (rdrradio1@msn.com) on Tue Apr 17th, 2007 at 01:22:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The east german public was benefitting from east german industry. East Germany was the most prosperous Soviet Bloc country.

To imply that job security, an ok living standard and free education and health care is not benefits for the population is a bit of a stretch. DDR was a repressive communist dictatorship, but the East German people were better off (especially materially) than the majority of the people in the world today.

But no matter what one might feel about the specific case of the DDR, it is nevertheless outside of the scope of what I was talking about in my diary. That part of Germany has been industrialised since the Bismarck era.

by Trond Ove on Thu Apr 19th, 2007 at 08:55:26 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I notice now that my "question" is actually much less clear than Metatones. Maybe I should have stuck closer to the original, to make it clear that I am talking about the progression from non-industrial to industrial economies, not quantitative or qualitative differences within these broad groups of economies.

Maybe this would be better:
Name a large economy that made a transition from poor/agricultural to prosperous/industrial through the removal of trade barriers and liberalisation of the economy.

by Trond Ove on Tue Apr 17th, 2007 at 04:03:18 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I think that many economists are looking at these subtlety and thus maybe your question is too restrictive.

Jagdish Bhagwati defines it as "Freer Trade". Thus economist understand the importance of trade for increasing the wealth of nations, but to say all barriers should be removed may not make sense especially in a developing country that has no market control of its own.

It may be hard for me to describe it but he also talks about whether the government and industry is outward directed or whether it is inward directed. Much as many countries have tried Import Substitution with poor results. It is very hard for a government to pick winners and losers.

Jagdish talks about the growth occurring in both India and China after they started policies that were outward directed.

------------------------------ Rutherfordian RDRutherford

by Ronald Rutherford (rdrradio1@msn.com) on Tue Apr 17th, 2007 at 02:06:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]
You might want to subject some of Jagdish's work to a bit of critical reading. He rather purposefully elides the growth data from different periods to buttress his points.
by Metatone (metatone [a|t] gmail (dot) com) on Wed Apr 18th, 2007 at 02:53:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Hmm... If Bhagwatis concept of "outward directed" is synonimous with an economy geared towards industrial exports, a la the Asian tigers of today, I can't really see any disagreement with what I am writing. Could you elaborate a bit more on his ideas?
by Trond Ove on Thu Apr 19th, 2007 at 09:02:38 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I typed some quotes of Jagdish at my blog entry: In Defense of Globalization. I hope that helps.

I have not seen the debate between Bhagwati and Joseph Stiglitz, but after reading some of both of them, I really do not see much difference in their opinions.

------------------------------ Rutherfordian RDRutherford

by Ronald Rutherford (rdrradio1@msn.com) on Fri Apr 20th, 2007 at 12:29:50 AM EST
[ Parent ]

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