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I did mean each with a different critical speed. I do not know the behavior when the panto passes the critical speed (other than that at critical speed contact becomes sporadic because the wave moves the wire up by 30 cm, which stops producing a wave, contact again, etc, until the wire, the coils, the PWM are all fried without the train passing the critical speed...)

Does it simply break if the train keeps on accelerating (by any auxiliary mean other than the catenary under consideration) until it makes contact again definitively ahead of the wave ? Or can you "break" the wall like planes can beat sound just by having enough extra thrust at the right moment ?

Pierre

by Pierre on Wed Apr 4th, 2007 at 05:09:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I do not know the behavior when the panto passes the critical speed

It just snaps, AFAIK. When a plane goes supersonic, it still pushes a shock wave ahead of it (the "wall" becomes a cone), but the shock wave in a metal line would tear it, I surmise.

On a more general note, catenary is not cheap -- and two catenaries (each of which have to be sufficient for conducting maximum currents) would be double prize, not to mention the extra spanning work and the the extra wear on the pantographs. So I'd guess pushing the critical speed higher (stronger alloys, different material, more weights on the ends) is cheaper anyway.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Thu Apr 5th, 2007 at 06:35:06 AM EST
[ Parent ]
It must be an intense area of research ?

Could it be that a contact-less panto sucks the current by ionizing air a few centimeters away from the catenary ? You would need some tight feedback loop to keep it a the right distance (too close, it hits, too far, it looses conduction), but 200 m/s doesn't rule it out with some telemetry/radar continuously tracking the catenary.

Or may be the simple fact of having a 20 MW spark would displace the catenary and still cause a shockwave ?

Pierre

by Pierre on Thu Apr 5th, 2007 at 07:54:44 AM EST
[ Parent ]
This may be viable technically, but you don't want sparks flying in regular traffic (especially in high summer when grass would catch fire), nor stuff burnt onto the catenary, so you'd have to develop and manufacture it just for a record run.

By the way, speaking of catenary/pantrograph research, I know that both the Japanese and the Germans developed active pantographs, regulating for constant pressure on the catenary. I wonder where Alstom and SNCF are with that technology.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Thu Apr 5th, 2007 at 12:34:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Actually, the TGV at commercial speed is already pretty sparky: the highway between Paris and Lyon runs parallel to the railway for many miles, and I drove it several times at night: when the TGV passes you (you can't be mistaken, he's 150 km/h faster than you !) it has burst of sparks flying all around the pantos every second. And that was all of them (they're barely two minutes apart on that section).

There is a large ballast rock strip on either side of the railway, dunno if it's specially larger for high speed railways, but there must be burning metal shards falling on it all the time.

Actually, if the panto was contact-less and the spark was just like lightning, a canal of ionized air, it wouldn't expand past the area between catenary and panto and nothing would get chipped away to the ground.

Pierre

by Pierre on Thu Apr 5th, 2007 at 04:59:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]
If the TGV was only driving 150 km/h faster than you I guess you were in quite a hurry. ;)

Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.
by Starvid (arvid.hallen at gmail.com) on Thu Apr 5th, 2007 at 05:06:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Weren't those nights misty or rainy? Sparks are pretty normal under those conditions, even on conventional railways.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Thu Apr 5th, 2007 at 05:19:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

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