Display:
Remember Bush lost the popular vote the first time, and won by a narrow majority the second time.

What has happened in the US from 2001 to now could not conceivably happened in France.

If terrorists placed a large bomb in central Paris that killed 3000 people, how would the public react politically?

you are the media you consume.

by MillMan (millguy at gmail) on Thu May 3rd, 2007 at 02:53:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Well, I don't think this happened in America, either, though there was a bombing campaign in France in the early '90's, you may recall.

On the other hand, what happened on 911 almost happened in France as well. Islamic terrorists hijacked a plane and were planning on flying it to Paris. One rumor had it they intended to blow it up over the Eiffel tower.

The outcome of course was different than 911, but then this may just be a question of competence of the respective authorities in the US (bumbling) and France (top-notch in counter-terrorism).

And of course, shortly after this, the metro bombings in Paris. Or in the 80's how many times did Chez Goldenberg get blown up?

Again, not thousands of deaths (though if the GIA had succeeded in blowing that plane up over Paris, there likely would have been).

Of course, when the US lackeys in London was asked to jump for the US, they did, but when they were asked by the Quai des Orfevres to hand over metro bombing terror suspect Rachid Ramda to Paris, what did they say? "Can't be assured of a fair trial in France".

It took the brits 10 years to extradite him.


Fai de bèn a Bertrand, te lou rendra en cagant

by redstar on Thu May 3rd, 2007 at 03:10:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]
You didn't answer my question.

I'll be honest - there is nasty, petty, smug part of me that wants to see Sarkozy win for no other reason than to have a weapon for me to use against Europeans who think Bush got elected due to a defect in American character (as opposed to more generic human psychological factors). If he does win, I expect a lot of people here to throw a fairly large shar of the blame the Anglo press rather than challenge some deeply held views.

you are the media you consume.

by MillMan (millguy at gmail) on Thu May 3rd, 2007 at 04:47:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Well, to be fair, Sarko won't be as bad as Bush - who is? - but just a standard panderer to the business crowd and the rich. He'll fuck with the tax code a bit, support the US because that's just the thing to do and move everything a bit more in the favour of the top couple of per cent.

He's unlikely to kill hundreds of thousands of people for domestic political gain. You really outdid yourselves with Prince George I'm afraid.

by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Thu May 3rd, 2007 at 04:55:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]
European politicians don't have America's army. If they did, I wouldn't expect anything different. It's the inevitable result of too much power.

you are the media you consume.

by MillMan (millguy at gmail) on Thu May 3rd, 2007 at 05:04:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]
American politicians have America's army because they chose to have it.

What you say is to Europe's credit, not the other way 'round.

Fai de bèn a Bertrand, te lou rendra en cagant

by redstar on Thu May 3rd, 2007 at 05:13:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]
It's not to anyone's credit - it is learning from history through the death of many millions of people. It plays a large role in my bleak view of the future - what hope is there for the US when Europe has such a complete emotional understanding of where this can lead, yet votes for right-leaning politicians who bait on the usual topics, and seems to be drifting to the right just as the US has over the past three decades?

you are the media you consume.

by MillMan (millguy at gmail) on Thu May 3rd, 2007 at 05:25:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I agree with you 100%. It is depressing.

I just think that while the US appears to be too far gone to have any hope of turning things around without a major <understatement> correction </understatement>, this isn't the case with most of the EU-15.

And the EU can rapidly turn things around once that <understatement> American correction </understatement> takes place, if but for the simple matter that democratic institutions are still more or less viable and comparatively free of corruption, and that solidarity means, viscerally speaking, something for most Europeans, whereas the infrastructure for either in the US is almost non-existant for the simple reason that the concept is so foreign.

Fai de bèn a Bertrand, te lou rendra en cagant

by redstar on Thu May 3rd, 2007 at 05:37:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Of course you are absolutely correct, being a smaller gangster means you are much more moral than your boss gangster.
by rootless2 on Thu May 3rd, 2007 at 06:02:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I am really concerned about the effects that a Sarkozy presidency will have on the EU. 3 years of Brown - Sarkozy - Merkel - Barroso may cause irreparable damage.

Bush is a symptom, not the disease.
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu May 3rd, 2007 at 06:28:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Well, to be fair, (2), I think you're exaggerating about Europeans believing Bush got elected due to a defect in American character. A lot of us here are concerned the Overton window is a long way to the right in American politics today. That's not the same thing.
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Thu May 3rd, 2007 at 05:04:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I know the reasoning is more sophisticated than to only include that, but I do see it, a lot. There is a strong undercurrent of cultural conflict on this site.

you are the media you consume.

by MillMan (millguy at gmail) on Thu May 3rd, 2007 at 05:14:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]
You mean like the pie-fights?

A vote for PES is a vote for EPP! A vote for EPP is a vote for PES! Support the coalition, vote EPP-PES in 2009!
by A swedish kind of death on Thu May 3rd, 2007 at 06:52:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Which I claim are usually initiated by an exchange between two Americans.

Bush is a symptom, not the disease.
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu May 3rd, 2007 at 06:56:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Heh.

I know better than to wish for that.

I did answer your question, though. First, it was that yes indeed France was attacked like this, but was able to fend it off a bit better. 1994-1995 was a big wave of terror but I don't recall France going and invading, say, Oran because of it, any of the attendant failings of the 4th estate or electing a jackbooted fool of a war criminal. I mean, Chirac was bad enough, but like I've said elsewhere, only slightly to the left of Bill Clinton. Not left enough, to be sure, but no Dubya, not by a long shot.

It's not a defect in character of the American people, though, it's an aspect of empire, the softness of character this engenders, and especially the herdish entitlement mentality that all empires, large and small, inevitably see. (OTOH, you may now understand how a Serb felt when Democratic supporters of Clinton's bombing campaign said similar things about them for having elected a Milosevic, for instance...)

And you have to admit, the average American's knowledge of the world, how it works, where things are and who they are relative to it is vastly inferior to virtually all peoples in Europe (with the possible exception of the English). And that contributes to inferior outcomes.

Fai de bèn a Bertrand, te lou rendra en cagant

by redstar on Thu May 3rd, 2007 at 05:09:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Maybe like the Spanish people reacted when someone put 13 bombs in Madrid and killed 200 people?

Even the British didn't go for Blair's 90-day detention without trial after 50 people were killed by 4 bombs in Central London.

Bush is a symptom, not the disease.

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu May 3rd, 2007 at 06:31:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Display:
Login
. Make a new account
. Reset password
Occasional Series