Display:
...because practical political rhetoric is about creating the illusion of ethos rather than the reality.

Empirically, ethos in the sense that you seem to be using it here simply doesn't persuade - or rather, it persuades only in very rare and exceptional cases like MLK and Gandhi. And what makes them persuasive isn't ethical speech but ethical living. This creates a basis for trust and authority which can't be communicated using rhetorical techniques alone.

Compare this with recent history. Italy, the US, and the UK have all fallen prey to con artists who have no moral stature. And in France, the debate has set yet another con artist against someone who's far more ethically sound, but simply hasn't inspired the voters.

It's tempting to blame a propaganda war, but that ignores the fact that those who don't buy the bullshit are a minority, while those who do buy it - wholesale - are the majority.

So I don't find the concept of ethos useful here, because it starts from the false assumption that everyone's ethos is similar.

If you get into a debate with someone whose ethos is based on power and expediency rather than respect and honesty, you will lose. A liar who appeals to simple-minded and base instincts will always be more persuasive than someone whose position is nuanced and ethically sound.

Proving that the liar is charlatan is probably the only effective strategy. And sometimes even that doesn't seem to work.

So I can't agree that assuming the moral high ground on a basis of personal impeccability has implicit rhetorical value.

What works in practice is being able to persuade others that you have moral authority.  This is completely different to actually having it. And it seems to use a completely different set of rhetorical tricks. (E.g. identifying with god forms and other tribal totems, linking personal power with tribal power and military prowess, assuming historical, scientific, economic, or even mythological inevitably, and so on.)

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Sat May 5th, 2007 at 07:18:40 PM EST
If you get into a debate with someone whose ethos is based on power and expediency rather than respect and honesty, you will lose. A liar who appeals to simple-minded and base instincts will always be more persuasive than someone whose position is nuanced and ethically sound.

TBG expresses, as I see it, the key factors invalidating the Left's message.  And, perhaps, the key stumbling block to the Left being able to construct a persuasive mass-media campaign?

by ATinNM on Sun May 6th, 2007 at 12:28:06 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I don't think I'm suggesting that we need to "assume the moral high ground on a basis of personal impeccability," or anything of the sort, really.  Ethos in rhetorical situations simply exists; we are going to perceive speakers (and respondent, and interlocutors of all sorts) as credible (or not) based on a host of considerations.  Some of these are internal to discourse itself -- the kind of exchanges going on at this site are a good example of a case where that is dominant.  Some are externalized in social networks including power relations, media, and so forth.  An individual rhetor may have some degree of ability to control how internally-generated ethos is received -- that is, if the power relationships don't dominate everything. That kind of control is routinely under-acknowledged by those (like progressives) who recognize the power of situated ethos.
by kellogg (kellogg[dot]david[at]gmail[dot]com) on Sun May 6th, 2007 at 12:54:27 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Display:
Login
. Make a new account
. Reset password
Occasional Series