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I've been kind of wondering about just this issue for awhile now but haven't managed to actually do anything about it, so thank you for this serendipitously timely diary.

Peak fuels might have a slight ameliorating affect here if it causes the abandonment low-density residential patterns, as this would free up square kilometers of arable land that has been "developed" out of production.

But I admit this is probably the proverbial fart in a windstorm.

The fact is that what we're experiencing right now is a top-down disaster. -Paul Krugman

by dvx (dvx.clt ät gmail dotcom) on Sat Jun 23rd, 2007 at 09:29:08 AM EST
Low density residential land-use patterns is one of my pet peeves in life.  Sitting underneath Silly-Con Valley, California, is some of the richest, most productive, soils in the world with a mild climate encouraging plant growth.  So what happens?  It get covered with concrete and single family detached homes.

But human beings are rational ... yup, yup, yup.

by ATinNM on Sat Jun 23rd, 2007 at 01:49:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Low-density residential land use makes urban agriculture possible. The alternative is probably a dense residential core and a "green belt".

Can the last politician to go out the revolving door please turn the lights off?
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sat Jun 23rd, 2007 at 01:56:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I'm not convinced - yet - by urban agriculture.

In medieval times in England the standard unit required to - barely - feed four households on a farm was called a Hide, and it's roughly 120 acres.

Assuming we're much smarter now - hmmmm - we can perhaps get the grain requirements of a family down into an area of maybe five acres instead of thirty. (That's possibly optimistic. Modern farming returns grain yields of 20:1 but is very intensive, and also allows fields to lie fallow every few years, which is only possible if agriculture is collective.)

Five acres is roughly two and a half football pitches, which is a little bigger than most people's yards.

The permaculture people claim you can live off a much smaller space than this. And if you build some greenhouses to concentrate energy and keep bad weather out you can - perhaps. But you won't be able to do it by growing cereals, which are possibly the most energy intensive of all vegetable crops.

And other crops really aren't all that calorific. If you want to eat a minimum of 1500 calories a day, you need very, very big plates of vegetables, or - ideally - some other source of carbs.

So realistically the most you can expect from urban agriculture is a bit of fill-in, and perhaps some barter. It will certainly help, but mainstream agriculture really does need to be collective and large-scale for maximum social and economic value.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Sat Jun 23rd, 2007 at 06:10:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Missing topic here is fish.
by Laurent GUERBY on Sun Jun 24th, 2007 at 03:58:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Yeah, fish is going to be missing soon.

Can the last politician to go out the revolving door please turn the lights off?
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sun Jun 24th, 2007 at 04:50:28 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Not sure where fish comes in when talking about grain production and over-population ...  :-p ...

but ...

The short answer is: world fish stocks have either gone or are going bye-bye (technical phrase) and the answer is Stop.  Stop fishing until they recover; IF they CAN recover - in the Canadian experience they won't.  

It is possible the Cod have moved north into the Davis Strait as a result of increased sea temperatures off the Canadian coast.  Reflecting the northward movement occurring in the lobster grounds off the coast of the state of Maine.  I'd have to do some research to see if anyone has even looked up there for 'em. (The cod, not the lobster.)

by ATinNM on Sun Jun 24th, 2007 at 01:08:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Faarmed fish get fed grain, and people get fed fish?

Can the last politician to go out the revolving door please turn the lights off?
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sun Jun 24th, 2007 at 01:25:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Unless there has been a dramatic change in fish farming in the last 4 years ... (CYA!  CYA!)

Usually farmed fish are fed (so called) "trash fish."  The amount of grains fed to fish is insignificant.

by ATinNM on Sun Jun 24th, 2007 at 02:35:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Mad fish disease?

Can the last politician to go out the revolving door please turn the lights off?
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sun Jun 24th, 2007 at 02:59:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Since you ran away from the US - you coward - you don't know the Absurd Hysteria of the Moment© in the US press is widespread reports of attacks by small furry animals, with rabies, on small children.  

Attacks by Disease Maddened Fish is only a newscycle away.

by ATinNM on Sun Jun 24th, 2007 at 03:18:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]
by the stormy present (stormypresent aaaaaaat gmail etc) on Sun Jun 24th, 2007 at 03:25:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Nine times over the past seven weeks, the Asian transplant that can breathe air and scoot slowly over land has been caught in a 14-mile stretch of the Potomac or its tributaries.

...

Already, there is a snakehead fishing tournament scheduled for July, and Bass Pro Shops Outdoor World at Arundel Mills in Hanover plans to offer a bounty on northern snakeheads -- $10 to $50 gift certificates, depending on the length of the fish.

This is crazy. The rate of capture is one every 5 days and they are already organising a tournament?

Can the last politician to go out the revolving door please turn the lights off?
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sun Jun 24th, 2007 at 03:37:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]
That article is three years old.  There was a serious manhunt... or, um, fishhunt, for them when they were first found.  At the time, the hope was that the fish was in its first generation and could be eradicated before it really took hold.  That hope has long since passed....
by the stormy present (stormypresent aaaaaaat gmail etc) on Sun Jun 24th, 2007 at 03:40:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]
In other words, the tournament and the bounties were designed to encourage people to catch them, and to keep them rather than throw them back.
by the stormy present (stormypresent aaaaaaat gmail etc) on Sun Jun 24th, 2007 at 03:41:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]
That's clever.

Can the last politician to go out the revolving door please turn the lights off?
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sun Jun 24th, 2007 at 03:43:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Actually fer real and True ....

No, I didn't.

Now all they have to do is find the "scary invasive Chinese fish that breathe air and walk on land and eat everything in sight and breed like crazy" are illegal immigrant Al Quada terrorerrorists and we've got a Trifecta!

by ATinNM on Sun Jun 24th, 2007 at 03:54:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]
C'mon, it's only a matter of time before the grunion make it past the beach!  Invasion is immenent!  They must be stopped!

Maybe we can eventually make language a complete impediment to understanding. -Hobbes
by Izzy (izzy at eurotrib dot com) on Sun Jun 24th, 2007 at 04:06:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]
So THAT'S why the Long Beach, California, City Hall is a replica of Hitler's beach defenses.

Them gahdamn gunions won't make it to Ocean Blvd.  

by ATinNM on Sun Jun 24th, 2007 at 04:45:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]
No, I mean people getting Creutfeld-Jacob's Disease from eating cannibalistic fish.

Can the last politician to go out the revolving door please turn the lights off?
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sun Jun 24th, 2007 at 03:27:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I dunno about fishy CJD, but there's also the scary dinoflagellate that kills fish after giving them icky open sores and makes people sick too.  Plenty of fish hysteria to go around.  Not to mention your garden variety red tides....
by the stormy present (stormypresent aaaaaaat gmail etc) on Sun Jun 24th, 2007 at 03:37:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Can't happen at this moment since they're being fed the ugly pelagic stuff that's pretty much all you get from the oceans these days and they don't dare showing on the shop stalls.

But I saw on french TV a few weeks ago a doc on big french fish farms that go full vertical: since the crap catches are also collapsing, they are breeding their own bait fish to feed the noble species that have a market (Salmon, Daurade, what's the english for that ?? probably Bar/Loup aslo, which you gotta translate from one coast of France to the other)

Guess in a few years, they'll probably grow their krill in clone vats to feed the feed...

Pierre

by Pierre on Sun Jun 24th, 2007 at 04:52:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]
let's hope that's all they're growing in those vats...

~"When an inner situation is not made conscious, it appears outside as fate." Karl Jung~
by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Tue Jun 26th, 2007 at 09:25:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]
TBG started on calories, then all food is relevant :).
by Laurent GUERBY on Sun Jun 24th, 2007 at 03:40:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I conceed the point.

But ... Fair Warning! ... if afew, et.al., start discussing the effects of beans on Global Warming I'm outta here.

by ATinNM on Sun Jun 24th, 2007 at 05:09:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]
We've different cultivars, a greater diversity of cultivars, and better cultivars than they had (circa) 1,000 CE.  Research has given us access to knowledge that, when applied, vastly improves yield per plant.  Together, we can produce several orders of magnitude more food/hide than they.

How all this affects urban agriculture beats my pair of Aces.

by ATinNM on Sun Jun 24th, 2007 at 02:27:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]
But then again, I suspect that the "low" density of a modern suburb is going to be too high for efficient agriculture of any type, particularly when one takes the (relatively) extremely dense road network into account that seals so many square kilometers of soil.

The fact is that what we're experiencing right now is a top-down disaster. -Paul Krugman
by dvx (dvx.clt ät gmail dotcom) on Sun Jun 24th, 2007 at 07:38:37 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Dervaes Family Farm on a suburban lot in Pasadena (Los Angeles area)

At Path to Freedom, the Dervaes family has steadily transformed their ordinary city lot in Pasadena, California, into an integral urban homestead. And, along the way, they are striving to become earth stewards, taking care of the precious gift we all have been given.

These eco-pioneers regard their 1/5 acre urban homestead as a sustainable living resource center where they are setting out to live by example while also inspiring others to "just do it!"

Their objective is to live as sustainably and self-sufficiently as possible in an urban environment in harmony with nature and each other, while also inspiring others to "think globally, act locally." Their homestead supports four adults, who live and work full time on a 66' x 132' city lot (1/5 acre).

The yard has over 350 varieties of edible and useful plants. The homestead's productive 1/10 acre organic garden now grows over 6,000 pounds (3 tons) of produce annually. This provides fresh vegetables and fruit for the family's vegetarian diet and a source of income.

The family operates a viable and lucrative home business, Dervaes Gardens, that supplies area restaurants and caterers with salad mix, edible flowers, heirloom variety tomatoes and other in-season vegetables. The income earned from produce sales offsets operating expenses and is invested in appropriate technologies, such as solar panels, energy efficient appliances, and biodiesel processor, to further decrease our homestead's reliance on the earth's non-renewable resources.

Over the years, by purchasing energy efficient appliances and using electricity conservatively, the modern homesteaders have cut their energy usage in half. Solar panels have reduced their dependence on electricity by two-thirds and have furthered their goal of energy independence. A solar oven is used to cook food on sunny days. And during the summer of 2005, the family built a cob oven, which is fueled by scraps of wood and twigs to create an energy source for cooking breads, pizzas, desserts, etc.

In 2003, the Dervaeses constructed a biodiesel processor from a discarded hot water heater, which enables them to brew low emissions biodiesel (a renewable, nontoxic, biodegradable replacement for petrol diesel) from used vegetable oil to fuel their diesel Suburban, reducing the vehicle's air toxins by 90%.

Citified farm animals

In addition, these urban farmers share their homestead with a menagerie of animals -- chickens, ducks, two rescued cats, red wiggler worms (which compost garbage) and two goats (Nigerian Dwarf and a Pygmy goat.

All the animals are treated with love, care and respect and full attention is given to their comfort and needs. Each breed is carefully researched and selected to fit into our urban homestead lifestyle and housing arrangements are designed for the animals' preferences and needs but with unique, space saving innovations. The family is vegetarian and none of the animals are raised for meat related purposes.

Future projects on the "to do list" are the installation of a greywater reclamation system, composting toilet, and a cistern to capture and store rainwater, which would dramatically reduce the use of precious water.

I wish everyone would quit saying "it can't be done" and pay some attention to the people who are already doing it.

The difference between theory and practise in practise ...

by DeAnander (de_at_daclarke_dot_org) on Sun Jun 24th, 2007 at 05:30:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Brave and impressive, but also precarious. From their blog in January:

Just as we had feared - you kind of sense these things in your bones. The news this morning is devastating. Not a good start to the new year and upcoming planting season.  We still haven't rebounded from the hottest summer on record where we lost 90% of our heirloom tomato crop ( our most important cash crop that pulls us through fall and winter)  More recently having to deal with the big chill which wiped out the entire winter crop and set us back months.  Now with forecasters predicting a dry year the plants are going to suffer not getting the deep down moisture that we so look forward to in winter. It's going to be another long and difficult year, which I suspect will bring on quite a few changes in our lives.

Also, UK conditions are very different to Californian ones. We get much less sun here, much sharper winters - frost is normal, not exceptional - and a much shorter growing season. And we get a lot more rain. The usual Euro problem is that incident energy is much lower, so things grow more slowly. Not even Findhorn could match these people. ;)

Corn might work here, squash and root crops will, beans will, tomatoes will, berries will, but oranges and lemons won't, and the growing season for fruit is much shorter. I can imagine nuts - useful for protein balance - filling in as a high-calorie alternative.

Even so, 1/5 of an acre is an unusually large garden by UK standards. Allotments - small off-site vegetable gardens - are a popular hobby here, but the average size is something like 1/20th.

I suppose if lawnorder breaks down and there's a mad scramble for land, things might rearrange themselves.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Sun Jun 24th, 2007 at 07:49:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Awesome that they're doing what they're doing, but doing it in a region that is water-poor is, frankly, a dumb idea when you're on such a small parcel of land.

you are the media you consume.

by MillMan (millguy at gmail) on Sun Jun 24th, 2007 at 09:52:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]
ah well that gets us into the history of the Los Angeles basin, the theft of water from surrounding areas to build a megalopolis where none should really exist, etc. -- Mike Davis is the guy to tell this story, in City of Quartz.

the Dervaes family is where it is, doing what it can do;  I wouldn't have picked LA myself due to the precarity of the water supply, but it's where they found themselves.  I coulda picked on any of a thousand or so other examples out of the literature -- people reversing desertification by permaculture planting out in Arizona;  people reversing soil pollution (all over the place) by using brassicas, composting processes, and fungi to extract or convert toxins...

and yeah, suburban lots are larger in the US than in many countries.  which makes the US, paradoxically, a more promising place to relocalise food gardening...  even while it is the kingpin nation of corporate food.

The difference between theory and practise in practise ...

by DeAnander (de_at_daclarke_dot_org) on Mon Jun 25th, 2007 at 02:59:06 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I keep saying that the 4x higher population density of Europe (and 8x in Britain) is going to make things harder than in the US in many ways, if the fears about the coming crash are realised.

Can the last politician to go out the revolving door please turn the lights off?
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Jun 25th, 2007 at 03:47:31 AM EST
[ Parent ]
There is a lot of karmic / relative moral accounting going on when people envision the future, particularly when examining these particular issues. I think there is a part of people (including a lot of Americans) that can't believe that the US, with its radical overconsumption, could possibly come out better than much of the world once we've entered a permanent era of being energy limited, either in the literal sense or the moral "eye for an eye" sense. There's probably an article to be written there. We haven't had a good pie fight in a while either.

The American suburbs are my favorite example. The idea of abandoning them is ridiculous - if it comes down to it, you start putting two or three families in one house, abandon certain houses and subdivisions, and fill in with farms. The near-term doomers have a comical over reliance on assuming that there will be no adaptation.

In the medium term I still think Europe is better off - in a world of declining (but not critical) energy resources, infrastructure efficiency becomes the main variable in determining your (mostly material) quality of life.

you are the media you consume.

by MillMan (millguy at gmail) on Mon Jun 25th, 2007 at 02:28:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Europe has a few hundred years' head start on the US in the resource depletion department.

Can the last politician to go out the revolving door please turn the lights off?
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Jun 25th, 2007 at 02:36:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]
what the suburbs notably lack is any transportation infastructure other than private autos.  so in a fuel-poor future they might easily split off into townships quite separate from the urban cores they sprawled out from.  the yuppies with no survival skills who built and originally inhabited them might leave, but I think they would quickly become microfarming belts, with each ridiculously huge house as you say, occupied by more than one family or by extended families.

the real problem is the quality of construction, for whuch in many cases "gimcrack" would be too kind. w/o endless inputs of repair/maintenance I don't see the average carburb home standing up well over a 40 year period.  the structures are so flimsy that they rely on high-tech and lightweight roofing materials -- anything heavier wouldn't be borne by the spindly little wall joists.  I imagine that creative survivalist families and townships would encase the entire structure in strawbale and adobe (or cob or whatever was locally available) to improve insulation and create a stronger perimeter to support more traditional roofing materials...  but this is idle speculation and more appropriate for a sci fi story than our immediate discussion...

The difference between theory and practise in practise ...

by DeAnander (de_at_daclarke_dot_org) on Mon Jun 25th, 2007 at 03:01:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]
40 years is enough time to allow a "soft landing".

Can the last politician to go out the revolving door please turn the lights off?
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Jun 25th, 2007 at 03:02:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]
As I'm an angry fatalist, Mike Davis is one one of my favorite authors, although City of Quartz is probably the only book of his I haven't read (but I think Ecology of Fear covers most of the same ground). If Los Angeles did not exist, then the land would be good for, well, the same sort of agriculture it was used for before the megalopolis showed up (hinted at by my "on a piece of land that size" qualifier).

you are the media you consume.

by MillMan (millguy at gmail) on Mon Jun 25th, 2007 at 01:59:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]
an angry fatalist

nice phrase.  moi aussi.

it's one thing to watch the crowded bus roaring straight at the brick wall and still accelerating... that's fatalism... what's angry-making is that it's a small freestanding brick wall in the middle of a huge coordinate grid of other choices;  knowing that the crash could easily have been avoided (where "easily" is a function of "preventing a bunch of greedy psychopaths from constructing our social reality"), that's (for me) the angry part...

The difference between theory and practise in practise ...

by DeAnander (de_at_daclarke_dot_org) on Mon Jun 25th, 2007 at 03:04:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]
angry fatalists...

fate rage....

it would be easy, if all were on board.

i see it as a communication challenge.

like speaking japanese to turtles, but more fun.

and hopefully a better payoff

~"When an inner situation is not made conscious, it appears outside as fate." Karl Jung~

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Tue Jun 26th, 2007 at 09:28:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Also, UK conditions are very different to Californian ones. We get much less sun here, much sharper winters - frost is normal, not exceptional - and a much shorter growing season. And we get a lot more rain. The usual Euro problem is that incident energy is much lower, so things grow more slowly. Not even Findhorn could match these people. ;)
Of course, Southern California is on the latitude of Morocco.

We tend to have a mental picture of the US and Europe as being eye-to-eye so to speak, but have a look at any map and you'll see that the US is noticeably south of Europe (15 degrees on average, maybe?). The Mediteranean is temperate but Caribbean is subtropical. Madrid is on the latitude of San Francisco (and New York). Oslo is on the latitude of Anchorage.

Can the last politician to go out the revolving door please turn the lights off?

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Jun 25th, 2007 at 03:53:28 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Even so, 1/5 of an acre is an unusually large garden by UK standards. Allotments - small off-site vegetable gardens - are a popular hobby here, but the average size is something like 1/20th.

I suppose if lawnorder breaks down and there's a mad scramble for land, things might rearrange themselves.

The UK has a population density 8 times that of the US, so people might get less than 1/20th of an acre.

Can the last politician to go out the revolving door please turn the lights off?

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Jun 25th, 2007 at 03:55:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]
The survivors would possibly get more. Outside of the cities, population density is relatively sparse. Wiltshire is mostly open fields. Out here the density is something like 20 people per square mile.

Google says there are about 14 million arable acres in the UK, and 60 million people. Assuming families of 4 - a bit of a stretch - that's around one acre per family.  

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Mon Jun 25th, 2007 at 09:56:40 AM EST
[ Parent ]

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