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Awesome that they're doing what they're doing, but doing it in a region that is water-poor is, frankly, a dumb idea when you're on such a small parcel of land.

you are the media you consume.

by MillMan (millguy at gmail) on Sun Jun 24th, 2007 at 09:52:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]
ah well that gets us into the history of the Los Angeles basin, the theft of water from surrounding areas to build a megalopolis where none should really exist, etc. -- Mike Davis is the guy to tell this story, in City of Quartz.

the Dervaes family is where it is, doing what it can do;  I wouldn't have picked LA myself due to the precarity of the water supply, but it's where they found themselves.  I coulda picked on any of a thousand or so other examples out of the literature -- people reversing desertification by permaculture planting out in Arizona;  people reversing soil pollution (all over the place) by using brassicas, composting processes, and fungi to extract or convert toxins...

and yeah, suburban lots are larger in the US than in many countries.  which makes the US, paradoxically, a more promising place to relocalise food gardening...  even while it is the kingpin nation of corporate food.

The difference between theory and practise in practise ...

by DeAnander (de_at_daclarke_dot_org) on Mon Jun 25th, 2007 at 02:59:06 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I keep saying that the 4x higher population density of Europe (and 8x in Britain) is going to make things harder than in the US in many ways, if the fears about the coming crash are realised.

Can the last politician to go out the revolving door please turn the lights off?
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Jun 25th, 2007 at 03:47:31 AM EST
[ Parent ]
There is a lot of karmic / relative moral accounting going on when people envision the future, particularly when examining these particular issues. I think there is a part of people (including a lot of Americans) that can't believe that the US, with its radical overconsumption, could possibly come out better than much of the world once we've entered a permanent era of being energy limited, either in the literal sense or the moral "eye for an eye" sense. There's probably an article to be written there. We haven't had a good pie fight in a while either.

The American suburbs are my favorite example. The idea of abandoning them is ridiculous - if it comes down to it, you start putting two or three families in one house, abandon certain houses and subdivisions, and fill in with farms. The near-term doomers have a comical over reliance on assuming that there will be no adaptation.

In the medium term I still think Europe is better off - in a world of declining (but not critical) energy resources, infrastructure efficiency becomes the main variable in determining your (mostly material) quality of life.

you are the media you consume.

by MillMan (millguy at gmail) on Mon Jun 25th, 2007 at 02:28:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Europe has a few hundred years' head start on the US in the resource depletion department.

Can the last politician to go out the revolving door please turn the lights off?
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Jun 25th, 2007 at 02:36:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]
what the suburbs notably lack is any transportation infastructure other than private autos.  so in a fuel-poor future they might easily split off into townships quite separate from the urban cores they sprawled out from.  the yuppies with no survival skills who built and originally inhabited them might leave, but I think they would quickly become microfarming belts, with each ridiculously huge house as you say, occupied by more than one family or by extended families.

the real problem is the quality of construction, for whuch in many cases "gimcrack" would be too kind. w/o endless inputs of repair/maintenance I don't see the average carburb home standing up well over a 40 year period.  the structures are so flimsy that they rely on high-tech and lightweight roofing materials -- anything heavier wouldn't be borne by the spindly little wall joists.  I imagine that creative survivalist families and townships would encase the entire structure in strawbale and adobe (or cob or whatever was locally available) to improve insulation and create a stronger perimeter to support more traditional roofing materials...  but this is idle speculation and more appropriate for a sci fi story than our immediate discussion...

The difference between theory and practise in practise ...

by DeAnander (de_at_daclarke_dot_org) on Mon Jun 25th, 2007 at 03:01:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]
40 years is enough time to allow a "soft landing".

Can the last politician to go out the revolving door please turn the lights off?
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Jun 25th, 2007 at 03:02:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]
As I'm an angry fatalist, Mike Davis is one one of my favorite authors, although City of Quartz is probably the only book of his I haven't read (but I think Ecology of Fear covers most of the same ground). If Los Angeles did not exist, then the land would be good for, well, the same sort of agriculture it was used for before the megalopolis showed up (hinted at by my "on a piece of land that size" qualifier).

you are the media you consume.

by MillMan (millguy at gmail) on Mon Jun 25th, 2007 at 01:59:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]
an angry fatalist

nice phrase.  moi aussi.

it's one thing to watch the crowded bus roaring straight at the brick wall and still accelerating... that's fatalism... what's angry-making is that it's a small freestanding brick wall in the middle of a huge coordinate grid of other choices;  knowing that the crash could easily have been avoided (where "easily" is a function of "preventing a bunch of greedy psychopaths from constructing our social reality"), that's (for me) the angry part...

The difference between theory and practise in practise ...

by DeAnander (de_at_daclarke_dot_org) on Mon Jun 25th, 2007 at 03:04:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]
angry fatalists...

fate rage....

it would be easy, if all were on board.

i see it as a communication challenge.

like speaking japanese to turtles, but more fun.

and hopefully a better payoff

~"When an inner situation is not made conscious, it appears outside as fate." Karl Jung~

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Tue Jun 26th, 2007 at 09:28:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

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