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During the long history of the Holy Roman Empire (modern-day Germany and neighbouring countries), dozens of towns and cities obtained local independence. By the late 18th century, their number had slowly been reduced to around 50, but almost all were eliminated ("mediatized") in 1803

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/City-state#The_Middle_Ages_and_the_early-modern_era

So...your suggestion is that in the creation of a larger structure than the city state you create the conditions for major advances in human knowledge?

Here is what I have been told: In Egypt (the prototype?) "nation without walls" as opposed to the walled city--birth of systematic knowledge (but what about the indians?  I don't know enough to know); then you had the greek-persian peace (not that I know much about that at all)...then...the romans...(on wikipedia there is a page called greek inventors; no page for roman inventors...; and then the collapse of Rome--lo those many years after...so there be dark ages...science-wise.  Applied sciences maybe.

...and christianity was (according to the gospel of Thomas--the twin) an idea conceived by John the Baptist to link all the "working classes" together, because they were the poor indigenous, but the jews had a policy of separation (chosen people), so...

cough cough cough cough!

...so then we move forward a couple of hundred yeares and islam is constituted and becomes an empire, one language, peace in the lands--but an empire...boom!  Knowledge.

Then the atrophying of that empire...well...I did a search and maybe it was the Mongols that ended the peace love and understanding.

The Mongols began their push into Central Asia and Persia in the early 13th century under Genghis Khan. The cities of Bukhara and Samarkand, later to become part of the Chagatai Khanate, fell to Genghis Khan's armies in 1220. From there it was not difficult to raid Persia, and by 1221 the Persian cities of Merv, Nishapur, and Balkh had fallen. In the inevitable pillaging that followed Mongol attacks, the invaders decimated the population of these regions, sparing only the artisans they deemed useful. The Mongols also uprooted many Muslim graves in their wake, including that of Harun al-Rashid, the 8th century Abbasid caliph who was featured in The Thousand and One Nights fables.

The Muslims inflicted their first defeat on the Mongols in 1221 at the Battle of Parwan, in present-day Afghanistan, under the leadership of Jalal al-Din, son of a Central Asian Muslim ruler. The victory provided a temporary morale boost for the Muslim army, but the Mongols soon regrouped and devastated Jalal's troops later that year. After that initial setback, the Mongols swept through Central Asia into Persia and Iraq. The Persian city of Isfahan fell in 1237, and the Mongols gradually moved closer to Baghdad, the centre of the Abbasid caliphate.

http://www.ucalgary.ca/applied_history/tutor/islam/mongols/ilkhanate.html

...and to tie up the strange knot....

The plague disease, caused by Yersinia pestis, is endemic in populations of ground rodents in central Asia, but it is not entirely clear where the fourteenth-century pandemic started. The most popular theory places the first cases in the steppes of Central Asia, though some speculate that it originated around northern India. From there it was carried east and west by Mongol armies and traders making use of the opportunities offered by the Pax Mongolica (the possibility of free passage within the Mongol Empire) along the Silk Road, and was first exposed to Europe at the trading city of Caffa in the Crimea from which it spread to Sicily and on to the rest of Europe.

Whether or not this hypothesis is accurate, it is clear that several pre-existing conditions such as war, famine, and weather contributed to the severity of the Black Death. A devastating civil war in China between the established Chinese population and the Mongol hordes raged between 1205 and 1353. This war disrupted farming and trading patterns, and led to episodes of widespread famine. The so-called "Little Ice Age" had begun at the end of the thirteenth century. The disastrous weather reached a peak in the first half of the fourteenth century with severe results worldwide.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Death

Boom!

Good to read your words, Linca.

Don't fight forces, use them R. Buckminster Fuller.

by rg (leopold dot lepster at google mail dot com) on Mon Jun 25th, 2007 at 04:45:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]
No-no, what I'm saying is that Islam in the middle east, and the eleventh century in Catholic Europe, saw the reapparition of the city. Whether in the form of the city-state in Northern Italy, or as part of an empire in Islam : the important thing is the concentration of people in the city.

After the Renaissance, the city slowly lost its political independence, but by that time it was ruling the world : in the middle age the nobility was living in its castle in the countryside ; in the 18th century it was living in luxurious hostels in the city.

Indeed the first intellectual evolutions appeared in Mesopotamia, at the time of the Sumerians which seems to have been of the city state ; Greeks were organized along city-state lines but the Hellenistic period (i.e. empires left over after the death of Alexander the Great) had the emperor-as-deity, yet saw the summits of Greek thoughts.

Romans are boring, have little litterature and next to no philosophy and science. It's not amazing the Roman intelligentsia spoke in Greek, not in Latin.

As for the mongols, because they had destroyed the Arab middleman between Europe and China, and instituted peace in Central Asia, they made possible the coming of Europeans in Cambaluk ; i.e. Marco Polo. Europeans who brought back the plague when coming back...

Un roi sans divertissement est un homme plein de misères

by linca (antonin POINT lucas AROBASE gmail.com) on Mon Jun 25th, 2007 at 05:04:34 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Romans. Didn't they invent concrete? First use of the spherical dome? Lovely aqueducts. Good artists (the house of the mysteries in Pompeii). Fantastic roads.
Romans were builders.
by bil on Tue Jun 26th, 2007 at 09:55:04 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I agree, the Romans were good builders ; but that's most of it. As for the artists, the thing is, Pompeii has almost all of what's left of Antiquity paintings ; we have nothing left from Greece, which was quite great as the history books tell us. But we're left "admiring" second rate pulp artistry on vases.

Un roi sans divertissement est un homme plein de misères
by linca (antonin POINT lucas AROBASE gmail.com) on Tue Jun 26th, 2007 at 10:22:03 AM EST
[ Parent ]
As I understand it, the romans applied previously known techniques, so they were developers but not inventors.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concrete#History

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vault_(architecture)#Dome

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acqueduct

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Road#History

(Hey, you got me thinking...)

Don't fight forces, use them R. Buckminster Fuller.

by rg (leopold dot lepster at google mail dot com) on Tue Jun 26th, 2007 at 11:15:47 AM EST
[ Parent ]

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