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For volcanic eruptions and the long winters that follow...we have nuclear...which would have to be underground, with all of us lot...at least our food would have to be...or else protected from the elements by huge greenhouse constructions...enough to feed everyone.

Which is a great boon--that we are developing nuclear, I mean, if we're thinking long term.

But before the next big explosion...my tech. question would be: what kind of material resources are needed to build these huge solar power stations?  Are all the materials around at adequate levels?

Don't fight forces, use them R. Buckminster Fuller.

by rg (leopold dot lepster at google mail dot com) on Sun Jun 24th, 2007 at 08:23:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I definitely find the topic fascinating. I'm quite happy this post went up.

When I was talking large volcanic eruption I guess I was thinking Mount Pinatubo size or something. I think we had a maximum 3 days without rain that summer and the wheat rotted in the fields because it was too wet to harvest.

I find the thought of having a backup system - nuclear power to be an odd type of redundancy. Doesn't that defeat the purpose of getting your energy from solar - if you already have nuclear why bother with solar?


aspiring to genteel poverty

by edwin (eeeeeeee222222rrrrreeeeeaaaaadddddd@@@@yyyyaaaaaaa) on Sun Jun 24th, 2007 at 09:08:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]
When I was talking large volcanic eruption I guess I was thinking Mount Pinatubo size or something. I think we had a maximum 3 days without rain that summer and the wheat rotted in the fields because it was too wet to harvest.

Mount Pinatubo had a Volcanic Explosicity Index of 6. 200 years ago there was an eruption with a volcanic explosivity index of 7, at Mount Tambora:

Tambora erupted in 1815 with a rating of seven on the Volcanic Explosivity Index; the largest eruption since the Lake Taupo eruption in AD 181. The explosion was heard on Sumatra island (more than 2,000 km or 1,200 mi away). Heavy volcanic ash falls were observed as far away as Borneo, Sulawesi, Java and Maluku islands. The death toll was at least 71,000 people, of which 11,000-12,000 were killed directly by the eruption; most authors estimated 92,000 people were killed but this figure is based on an overestimated calculation. The eruption created global climate anomalies; 1816 became known as the Year Without a Summer because of the effect on North American and European weather. Agricultural crops failed and livestock died in much of the Northern Hemisphere, resulting in the worst famine of the 19th century.
The Year Without a Summer, also known as the Poverty Year or Eighteen hundred and froze to death, was 1816, in which severe summer climate abnormalities destroyed crops in Northern Europe, the American Northeast and eastern Canada[1][2]. Historian John D. Post has called this "the last great subsistence crisis in the Western world."
I wonder whether John D. Post used the fact that this was the "last subsistence crisis" as an argument to demonstrate the wonders of industrial capitalism, or to underline that a single natural event can cause widespread economic hardship through crop failure.

Can the last politician to go out the revolving door please turn the lights off?
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Jun 25th, 2007 at 04:56:17 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Hey, sorry if I came across as snappy.  I'd put your question the other way round:

If you have solar (all it needs is maintenance), why bother with nuclear.  The long winter scenario is a reason for maintaining nuclear development, but my thought is that nuclear power stations demand certain things from society that solar power stations don't, so I'd rather see nuclear as part of a long-term "worst case" development plan (linked to trans-national university research depts.--something like that) rather than a day-to-day (nation state) working policy.

Maybe I mean that solar is scaleable and, linked to wind and wave tech., can produce energy from the one-person unit up, whereas nuclear needs a state to start with...or sommat!

I went at a tangent to super volcanoes because I was recently reading about the toba catstrophe theory, which suggests that we are all related to the 10,000 humans who survived, and 75,000 years...is a long time ago, but not all that long...

...was my point.  Sorry if I came across negatively!

Don't fight forces, use them R. Buckminster Fuller.

by rg (leopold dot lepster at google mail dot com) on Mon Jun 25th, 2007 at 05:12:32 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Solar is down-scaleable and mobile, compared to nuclear and even wind.

Can the last politician to go out the revolving door please turn the lights off?
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Jun 25th, 2007 at 05:15:14 AM EST
[ Parent ]
If you're talking a solar thermal using a steam cycle, not so much.
by tjbuff (timhess@adelphia.net) on Mon Jun 25th, 2007 at 10:53:24 AM EST
[ Parent ]
jeez, that's a sinister projection...

mankind surviving in subterranean nukepowered bunkers.

to emerge, grublike, decades later into a mars-scape...

have a nice day!

The power of knowledge is in mortal combat with the knowledge of power. It really is that simple... That's the Edenic apple we are all munching on.

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Mon Jun 25th, 2007 at 04:36:54 AM EST
[ Parent ]
It's not a projection, it's contingency planning.

Can the last politician to go out the revolving door please turn the lights off?
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Jun 25th, 2007 at 05:15:51 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Should we station nukes in space for the contingency of a comet heading for the Earth?

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Mon Jun 25th, 2007 at 05:58:45 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I think either "solution" can be deployed on a relatively short notice.

Can the last politician to go out the revolving door please turn the lights off?
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Jun 25th, 2007 at 06:04:39 AM EST
[ Parent ]
When the big blow happens, we're gonna need caves, extra-terrestrial homelands, or....?

Coz something big will probably happen in the next 100,000 years or so.

I don't find the "underground living" idea inherently sinister.  It could just as likely be "spaceship earth" but where we've built human-satisfying living environments (I know, unlikely!)...a sort of state of the art "arc" project.

Also, I don't imagine that we'd re-enter to a mars-scape; I'd expect plenty of plants to survive.  It's more a case of making sure that the plants we eat are--the seeds are--available for when the sun's back.

"grublike"--all covered in dirt!

I'm imagining underground gardens!

Don't fight forces, use them R. Buckminster Fuller.

by rg (leopold dot lepster at google mail dot com) on Mon Jun 25th, 2007 at 05:18:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Hey, I've now come up with a better idea.

Retractable greenhouses!

When we get the warning that the volcano is about to blow, we all push our respective buttons (and those living nearby get on the already-laid-on transport)...and

Whoooooosh!

The greenhouse covers roll over our terrains, like the covers at...yes!...Wimbledon when it starts to rain.

Coz as someone (Dodo?) wrote,

"Their is not a significant drop in solar radiation"

or words to that effect....

So greenhouses...with retractable roofs...on a worldwide scale...

...harnessed to renewable energy...plated with the latest in solar technology...

...Here's a silicon crystal...



Don't fight forces, use them R. Buckminster Fuller.

by rg (leopold dot lepster at google mail dot com) on Mon Jun 25th, 2007 at 07:46:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]
We'd kill ourselves in a nuclear war before we are hit by a mega-volcanic-explosion, I'd think. Or colonise Mars. Or invent a way to stop the erruption...

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Mon Jun 25th, 2007 at 05:57:18 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I hope you're not right about the nuclear war(s).

Interesting quake by quake info from Yellowstone here:

http://volcanoes.usgs.gov/yvo/

http://volcanoes.usgs.gov/yvo/2006/uplift.html

Imagine the tech needed to calm a supervolcano!  Huge shafts to release the pressure?  Sinks to pour the magma down?

Don't fight forces, use them R. Buckminster Fuller.

by rg (leopold dot lepster at google mail dot com) on Mon Jun 25th, 2007 at 07:15:44 AM EST
[ Parent ]

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