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The eyewitness reports have changed, or maybe the Guardia has "corrected" the eyewitness reports in light of the new information...
According to some witnesses the light metallic green Mercedes saloon was driven erratically and crashed into bins near a nightclub. The driver was then seen running away.
Of course, at 4am in sodium light, light metallic green might be confused for grey. But that doesn't excuse misreporting what the eyewitnesses said.

Oh, and The Haymarket is not exactly a quiet road, though it probably is at 4am.

The Haymarket runs parallel to Lower Regent Street and together the two roads form a one-way system, Lower Regent Street taking northbound traffic and Haymarket taking southbound traffic. The two roads are classified as part of the A4 road which runs from central London to Avonmouth near Bristol.

Wikipedia just added an article on the 2007 Haymarket Bomb Plot.

Can the last politician to go out the revolving door please turn the lights off?

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Jun 29th, 2007 at 07:19:57 AM EST
All the articles I've seen say 2:00 in the morning, which would be around chucking out time at the nightclubs during the week (With the added bonus that the injured would be mostly so inflicted with alcohol, you wouldn't be able to anesthatise them to operate, so there would be an increased level of fatalities)

Life should consist in at least fifty percent pure waste of time, and the rest doing what you please.
by ceebs (bunchofwankers (at) gmail (dot) com) on Fri Jun 29th, 2007 at 08:06:37 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Some photos here.

Looks like we've settled on 2am, which would indeed be busier than 4am.

Although I'm still not sure why The Haymarket would be a target when Piccadilly is just around the corner and is always much busier.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Fri Jun 29th, 2007 at 08:26:16 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Who's to say that Haymarket at 2:00am was the target?

The witnesses just report that it was being driven erratically and that the driver ran away after crashing into some bins. The erratic driving could well be down to the driver not being familiar with the car combined with them being wired on adrenaline (which does funny things to your fine motor control) - the fact that he abandoned the vehicle and scarpered after a mild prang supports the idea that he wasn't exactly the coolest cucumber in the fridge when push came to shove.

The cops haven't released any details of the detonation mechanism yet, so whilst this could have been a suicide run targetting jahiliyyi clubbers it could also have been intended to pre-position a bomb that was intended to wreak havoc at a later, busier time.

Even if it was intended to be a suicide run (and really, what's the point of suicide bombing a soft target?) absent tracking the bomber(s) down and getting the info from them, there's no way for us to know where they were targetting.

Regards
Luke

-- #include witty_sig.h

by silburnl on Fri Jun 29th, 2007 at 09:09:59 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Bad form to answer my own post, but a suicide run makes sense for a hardened target and thinking about it, Haymarket is the southbound leg of the one way system around there - which means that the driver was on a plausible route to Whitehall, which has plenty of hardened targets to choose from (including the obvious one of course).

This is all purest speculation of course.

Regards
Luke

-- #include witty_sig.h

by silburnl on Fri Jun 29th, 2007 at 09:27:26 AM EST
[ Parent ]
The hardened targets are - well - hardened. You'd break a few windows and scare people, but that would be about it. And the early morning is hardly peak time for Whitehall or Westminster.

No one seems to have commented on the fact that propane cannisters make very bad bombs. The steel casing is extremely thick and you have to leave it to burn for a long time before it explodes.

If the plan was to set fire to the car and then wait for the propane to go up, or even just to fill the car and light a match, that was only ever marginally likely to work.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Fri Jun 29th, 2007 at 01:25:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]
True, all true.
by the stormy present (stormypresent aaaaaaat gmail etc) on Fri Jun 29th, 2007 at 01:51:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I think if you were going to leave the bomb for later, you'd pick a different area altogether.

Pedestrian traffic peaks around 11pm-midnight in that part of London, with a smaller peak at chucking out time, which is anywhere between 2-4pm.

But if you wanted to leave a bomb near Whitehall or Westminster - both of which are very close - the chances of not being discovered are not great.

In no way does this make any sense, except possibly as a message for Gordo.

If you want maximum carnage you wait for the weekend.

If you want a more high profile target, you don't use a high profile Merc with windows that everyone can see into as they walk by.

Meanwhile everyone is - conveniently - already assuming this is an Islamic radical plot, based so far on no real evidence to support that idea.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Fri Jun 29th, 2007 at 09:34:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Well if the target was anywhere else other than central London, then anyone with half a brain would avoid it altogether. and avoid the extra security that is hanging about there. It's an extra thing that can go wrong. I don't think there's an Arabic assumption here, it could be right wing Nationalist Christians taking a bomb to the Gay area of London, which isn't that far away.

Life should consist in at least fifty percent pure waste of time, and the rest doing what you please.
by ceebs (bunchofwankers (at) gmail (dot) com) on Fri Jun 29th, 2007 at 10:00:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]
And of course, for maximum casualties you have to aim for between 2am and 4am.
by Solveig (link2ageataol.com) on Fri Jun 29th, 2007 at 12:09:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Well we can probably all think of several ways of creating not just more casualties, but much more disruption but probably don't want to give anyone any ideas

Life should consist in at least fifty percent pure waste of time, and the rest doing what you please.
by ceebs (bunchofwankers (at) gmail (dot) com) on Fri Jun 29th, 2007 at 12:20:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]
True enough.

It still looks a bit Keystone Kops vs Inept Terrorists though.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Fri Jun 29th, 2007 at 01:26:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]
well sooner or later they are going to learn. (Unless they are actually all suicide bombers)

Life should consist in at least fifty percent pure waste of time, and the rest doing what you please.
by ceebs (bunchofwankers (at) gmail (dot) com) on Fri Jun 29th, 2007 at 01:44:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Possibly not.

Considering the hysteria, and considering how easy it is for someone with even half a brain to do a whole lot of damage, actions are some way short of the political rhetoric about them.

This is a good thing. But it suggests that it's the political rhetoric that has become uncalibrated, and not so much that scary people are working hard at trying to live up to it.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Fri Jun 29th, 2007 at 01:49:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]
More like

Police scaremongering against I-do-not-know-how-to-build-a-damned-bomb terrorists...

Now seriously .. how is the press buying that with 60 gallons and "metralla" in a car you can make tens of casualties...

are they joking? pissed? Stupid? insane?

The only way to kill 10 people with this sort of artifacts it is if half of them were inside the car and the other five very close to the windows...but like having sex ont he windows of the car.

The press really keeps on surprissing me.. really.. flabbergasted... that's the word.. flabbergasted... geee

A pleasure

I therefore claim to show, not how men think in myths, but how myths operate in men's minds without their being aware of the fact. Levi-Strauss, Claude

by kcurie on Fri Jun 29th, 2007 at 08:21:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Flabbergasted me too - the nice young woman who announces what it has been decided is "the news" on French public radio this morning told me - on the highest authority - that the London car bomb attack "bore the mark of Al Qaeda".

Now just what mark would that be?

When locusts move on, they leave nothing behind

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Sat Jun 30th, 2007 at 02:25:07 AM EST
[ Parent ]
the London car bomb attack "bore the mark of Al Qaeda".

My guess is if it really had the mark of Al Qaeda" it would have been succesful and Larry Johnson seems to be on to something calling them "yuppie terrorists".

by Fran (fran at eurotrib dot com) on Sat Jun 30th, 2007 at 02:53:50 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Maybe there was a 'Made in Iran' sticker on one of cannisters.

Let's have a collection of silly media content:

BBC security correspondent Frank Gardner said simultaneous, co-ordinated bombs have been historically a distinguishing feature of al-Qaeda attacks.

Because no one has ever had that idea before.

Deputy Assistant Commissioner Peter Clarke, head of Scotland Yard's counter-terrorism command, said the discovery of the second device was "obviously troubling" and "reinforces the need for the public to be alert".

Earlier he had said the Haymarket incident "resonated" with previous cases.

Resonated? How? Which cases? Maybe my memory is going, but I don't remember any Merc-based car bombs recently. There was that Barot nutter last year, who was another off-the-peg fantasists who was never in any danger of getting the tools or materials together for an attack.

Good to know that the discovery of a second potential bomb is troubling though.

Good progress is said to have already been made in the search of CCTV footage, with unconfirmed reports suggesting police may have an image of a suspect leaving the vehicle left outside the Tiger Tiger club in Haymarket.

Which means they may have fuzzy lined video that's completely useless for identifying anyone. If they have anything at all.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Sat Jun 30th, 2007 at 06:58:22 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I must say that what L. J. says makes perfect sense actually.

I can imagine someone reading soemthing from a weird web page about resistence, oprresion and evil violent pseudoanarchism... tooking and artifact which is like an hyubrid of a moltov cocktail and plastic explosive with metralla... and using it with teh "al-qaeda brand"...

After one week of training , a brand-new young ETA activist knows more about explosives that those nerds.

A pleasure

I therefore claim to show, not how men think in myths, but how myths operate in men's minds without their being aware of the fact. Levi-Strauss, Claude

by kcurie on Sun Jul 1st, 2007 at 07:57:03 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I do keep looking at what we've been told, and the Glasgow attack specifically, and think that they have got their entire training from watching hollywood action films. the idea that a car packed with petrol is going to go up like a bomb is a bit of a reach.

Life should consist in at least fifty percent pure waste of time, and the rest doing what you please.
by ceebs (bunchofwankers (at) gmail (dot) com) on Sun Jul 1st, 2007 at 03:42:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Incompetence?

Can the last politician to go out the revolving door please turn the lights off?
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sat Jun 30th, 2007 at 03:18:19 AM EST
[ Parent ]
How may half witted failed terrorist attecks is this in a row?

The thing that really made me boggle yesterday was a "Terrorism expert" on Sky who told us with all seriousness that the terrorist websites even had helplines for when you had trouble building your bomb!

which raised the question what music do they have when you're on hold? and have they outsourced that to India which with the misunderstandings that always come with that are causing the current chain of failed bombs?

Life should consist in at least fifty percent pure waste of time, and the rest doing what you please.

by ceebs (bunchofwankers (at) gmail (dot) com) on Sat Jun 30th, 2007 at 03:31:20 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I wouldn't like to get on their help line.

When locusts move on, they leave nothing behind
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Sat Jun 30th, 2007 at 06:17:35 AM EST
[ Parent ]
well I was thinking 6 years into the war on terror and the terrorists don't jus have training camps, they can run a telephone helplinewe're doing even less well than I thought.

(Might be worth the security services ringing this number and asking to speak to Osama as well) ;-)

Life should consist in at least fifty percent pure waste of time, and the rest doing what you please.

by ceebs (bunchofwankers (at) gmail (dot) com) on Sat Jun 30th, 2007 at 08:49:47 AM EST
[ Parent ]
by Lupin on Sat Jun 30th, 2007 at 12:51:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Alcohol also decreases the blood's ability to clot, which would mean that wounded intoxicated people might bleed to death more easily than sober ones.
by the stormy present (stormypresent aaaaaaat gmail etc) on Fri Jun 29th, 2007 at 09:44:43 AM EST
[ Parent ]
It also makes them more limber, so that if thrown from a vehicle an intoxicated person is much more likely to survive than a sober one.

Bottom line here, as a wise man once told me.  You can drink or you can drive, but you can't drink and drive.

And I'll give my consent to any government that does not deny a man a living wage-Billy Bragg

by ManfromMiddletown (manfrommiddletown at lycos dot com) on Fri Jun 29th, 2007 at 11:27:56 AM EST
[ Parent ]

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