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You're failing to understand what I'm talking about and then refusing to believe me when I tell you what I meant because I used a different word to describe it.  I'm not being inconsitent -- you're being obtuse.

Maybe we can eventually make language a complete impediment to understanding. -Hobbes
by Izzy (izzy at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Jun 8th, 2007 at 07:10:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]
you're using a word in a way it is not meant to be used, and calling me obtuse because of it.

wow.  

by zoe on Sun Jun 10th, 2007 at 01:09:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I didn't call you on it before, but stop with the retaliatory downrating.   It doesn't help your "argument."

Maybe we can eventually make language a complete impediment to understanding. -Hobbes
by Izzy (izzy at eurotrib dot com) on Sun Jun 10th, 2007 at 01:37:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Good gravy, it's Ratings Abuse Sunday here on ET!
by the stormy present (stormypresent aaaaaaat gmail etc) on Sun Jun 10th, 2007 at 01:49:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]
you insulted me so I'm well within my rights here, as I understand the rules.  
by zoe on Sun Jun 10th, 2007 at 01:57:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]
It's not about rules and rights, but how you use them.

You can't be me, I'm taken
by Sven Triloqvist on Sun Jun 10th, 2007 at 02:07:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Sven, I consider you to be a rational person.  Isn't troll rating for people who need to use insults to make their point?
by zoe on Sun Jun 10th, 2007 at 02:18:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Troll rating is for people who are deliberately and wilfully disrupting a thread. They are usually recognized by being rude to everyone in an attention grabbing style. There is rarely any doubt about a troll., but if in doubt, wait until someone else troll rates first. The whole point of troll rating is that when enough people do it, the comment disappears. (Though it can still be seen by trusties)

Individual spats (as I assume is the case here) should be treated differently imho. You should take into account the following before retaliating with ratings - if ever:

  • The words that have been written could be misinterpreted - your interpretation is not necessarily the one intended by the writer.
  • Your words have been misinterpreted - very possible in a forum of people for whom English is not necessarily a first language.
  • The person is having a bad day
  • You are having a bad day
  • One person's insult may be another's bon mot
  • There may be unwritten interpreters in the text. Not everyone uses <snark> as they find them ungrammatical, if not twee ;-) As you know I use ;-) quite liberally after numerous instances in which my feeble humour has fallen upon infertile ground. I was going to say pearls before swine, but thought better of it ;-)
  • It may be simply better to ignore insults if they get you so hot and bothered - it is a sign of maturity. I usually try to turn the other cheek, or, as the Yanks say - kiss my ass ;-)
  • Troll rating is childish, but on the other had the only real harm it does is to stir up the swarm. Insults beget insults, and a low rating is as much of an insult as anything.
  • You should watch Seinfeld and realise the value of the Costanza comeback. It has to be good or forget it.


You can't be me, I'm taken
by Sven Triloqvist on Sun Jun 10th, 2007 at 02:46:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]
ok, thanks for the help Sven.  By the way, I am trying to get an interesting video project off the ground and just got a book about computer animation in the mail yesterday.  

To the others I will say "Bite me"

by zoe on Sun Jun 10th, 2007 at 02:52:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Oh, grow up.
by the stormy present (stormypresent aaaaaaat gmail etc) on Sun Jun 10th, 2007 at 02:53:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Bite me.
by zoe on Sun Jun 10th, 2007 at 03:02:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Just stop.  You're really going too far.

Maybe we can eventually make language a complete impediment to understanding. -Hobbes
by Izzy (izzy at eurotrib dot com) on Sun Jun 10th, 2007 at 03:05:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]
me?  
by zoe on Sun Jun 10th, 2007 at 03:27:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Simmer down. There are many things to consider here - age, gender, experience, expertise. Nobody teaches nettiquette - we have to have patience.

You can't be me, I'm taken
by Sven Triloqvist on Sun Jun 10th, 2007 at 03:44:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Whataboutbob is my idol. Did you ever hear a bad word?

You can't be me, I'm taken
by Sven Triloqvist on Sun Jun 10th, 2007 at 03:45:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]
don't make me turn on you.

Maybe we can eventually make language a complete impediment to understanding. -Hobbes
by Izzy (izzy at eurotrib dot com) on Sun Jun 10th, 2007 at 04:51:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]
In those shoes?

You can't be me, I'm taken
by Sven Triloqvist on Sun Jun 10th, 2007 at 04:53:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Heheh.  Never been kicked by a stilletto heel before, eh?
by the stormy present (stormypresent aaaaaaat gmail etc) on Sun Jun 10th, 2007 at 05:04:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Let's not go into that.

 I have quite enough problems without thinking about 6" transparent heels soled with titanium, on a transparent strap peep-toe in black patent.

Even the Pope might be tempted by kinky boots ;-)

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Sun Jun 10th, 2007 at 05:13:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Unlike mmmmm, I have been reading you for a long time. One gets a sense of the person above the shoes. So I know you won't turn on me. You know which side of your pancake has lemon on it.

But in my dope-crazed buddha-like state, I also like to encourage people to be good at ET. It is probably some misplaced faith in St. Jérôme as a saviour for our time. I love a good clique as well as the next man or woman, but the planet is the biggest clique there is.

Let's all try to get along until my next overdose.

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Sun Jun 10th, 2007 at 05:06:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Look at Strata 3D CX. It is what I use.

You can't be me, I'm taken
by Sven Triloqvist on Sun Jun 10th, 2007 at 03:40:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Uh, no.  "You insulted me" could be almost anything.

Maybe we can eventually make language a complete impediment to understanding. -Hobbes
by Izzy (izzy at eurotrib dot com) on Sun Jun 10th, 2007 at 02:17:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Sigh.  I know I'm going to regret getting into this, but here goes.

I personally consider it inappropriate to downrate somebody that you're in an argument with, and I make it a point not to do it.  It has the potential to turn into a ratings war, which is counterproductive and goes nowhere good.

Nobody would probably have complained if you had rated the comment with a 2, as you did the earlier one.  We might have thought to ourselves that it was borderline ratings abuse, but we would have given you the benefit of the doubt.

But a 1 is a troll rating, and should be used for only the most egregious comments.  I do not feel that Izzy's comment qualified, especially given what you had just said to her in the previous comment.  Who's to judge whether what you said was worse than what she said?  And do we really want to get into a pointless discussion of who hit whom first?  Do you see how this could become a cycle of retribution?  None of us wants that.

In general, 1 and 0 ratings are very sparingly handed out here at ET.  This may differ from some other blogs, but this is how we do things.  We use them for comments that cross the lines of acceptable discourse, either in terms of racist or otherwise offensive content, extreme personal attacks, or other obviously over-the-top stuff.

You may not have noticed that, although you and I have had several rather heated arguments here, I have never given you any rating other than a 4.  My own policy, as I mentioned, is not to issue any ratings to people while I'm arguing or vigorously debating with them, unless they say something that I genuinely feel deserves a 4.  My feeling is that if a person is engaged in a heated argument with somebody else, that person is perhaps not in the best position to judge which comments are over the line, and the odds are good that both parties have said something intemperate.

You have previously been warned about both retaliatory downrating and ad hominem attacks.  If you are having trouble judging the right tone and tenor with which to discuss contentious issues, I would urge you to err on the side of caution.

What we want here at ET is productive discussion and debate.  We need not always agree, and indeed up to a point I think the site benefits when we disagree, but we have traditionally tried to do so in a relatively civil way.  Please do try to keep that in mind.

by the stormy present (stormypresent aaaaaaat gmail etc) on Sun Jun 10th, 2007 at 02:30:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

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