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Malthus was, of course, right regarding exponential growth vs. any possible expansion of resources. He was wrong regarding the time scale and specific nature of the constraints, however, chiefly due to a moderate mis-estimation of improvements in agricultural technology. Current concerns about encountering real, hard, immutable limits are based on a gross mis-estimation of improvements to be expected (for better or worse) from achievable technologies.

Please note that none of the discussions of near-term limits address the question of what physics, chemistry, and biology tell us about what is achievable in manipulating matter and energy. Instead, they look at what we have, and imagine minor improvements in technologies and changes in deployments of labour and capital to exploit them.

Words and ideas I offer here may be used freely and without attribution.

by technopolitical on Sat Jun 9th, 2007 at 03:46:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]
When you factor in self-assembly, self-repair, and behaviour, how much more efficient is biology than present (or "achievable") technology?

Can the last politician to go out the revolving door please turn the lights off?
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sat Jun 9th, 2007 at 04:03:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Efficient at what?

And I wouldn't exclude human technology from biology. It's only a marginally more advanced example of tool use and resource extraction.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Sat Jun 9th, 2007 at 06:12:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]
How much more efficient is biology? Consider: we can learn from biology, and achievable technologies include systems both like and unlike what we find in biology -- including systems with structures inaccessible to evolutionary processes that are incremental and that build everything using microscopic bags of salt water. The question should be, I think, How much more efficient are achievable technologies?, as indicated by experience and by understanding based on known physical principles.

With respect to energy efficiency, answers vary depending on the process under consideration and the improvements range from small to an order of magnitude or more. As one important example, photovoltaic cells have already shown >40% efficient conversion of solar energy to usable free energy, electric power, but "The highest yielding crops convert solar energy into plant material with an efficiency of 1-2%".

The achievable efficiency of transforming matter from one form to another can be (at worst) comparable to that in biology, for comparable products, and the mass-efficiency of delivering useful functions (structural strength, motive force, information processing...) can in many instances be orders of magnitude higher, for achievable, very un-biological products (e.g., >40% efficient photovoltaic cells).

Words and ideas I offer here may be used freely and without attribution.

by technopolitical on Sat Jun 9th, 2007 at 08:04:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]
As one important example, photovoltaic cells have already shown >40% efficient conversion of solar energy to usable free energy, electric power, but "The highest yielding crops convert solar energy into plant material with an efficiency of 1-2%".

40% efficiency of conversion of solar energy into electricity is not the same thing as 40% efficiency of conversion of solar energy into photovoltaic cells.

And those biological systems are self-repairing, self-assembling and fully biodegradable.

Can the last politician to go out the revolving door please turn the lights off?

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sun Jun 10th, 2007 at 09:17:17 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Oh, and the highest yielding photosynthesisers (not used for crops) have a yield of 5-6%

Can the last politician to go out the revolving door please turn the lights off?
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sun Jun 10th, 2007 at 10:09:58 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Thanks. The number that I found seemed lower than what I'd recalled. With achievable gains in PV efficiency, the gap is still a factor of ~10.

Words and ideas I offer here may be used freely and without attribution.
by technopolitical on Sun Jun 10th, 2007 at 05:01:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]
And those biological systems are self-repairing, self-assembling and fully biodegradable

plus, many of them are edible and nutritious -- which is more than I can say for a milliamphour of solar power.

The difference between theory and practise in practise ...

by DeAnander (de_at_daclarke_dot_org) on Sun Jun 10th, 2007 at 03:51:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Yes, and this is an illustration of a broader point: Efficiency comparisons aren't much use when products are radically different. For an example on complementary side of this, I don't think that a vegetable garden is likely to grow me an internet connection.

Words and ideas I offer here may be used freely and without attribution.
by technopolitical on Sun Jun 10th, 2007 at 06:13:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]
[I like the 'athorists' quip btw]

and that leads us to the next question:  which is more important, eating, or having an internet connection / iPod / private auto / whatever ?

we are now faced with the question:  which of these luxury lifestyle accessories is compatible with a decent diet for everyone?  which of them is even compatible with a decent diet for the affluent elite nations?  our appetite for toys and profit has now collided with our appetite for food...

The difference between theory and practise in practise ...

by DeAnander (de_at_daclarke_dot_org) on Mon Jun 11th, 2007 at 04:32:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]
"40% efficiency of conversion of solar energy into electricity is not the same thing as 40% efficiency of conversion of solar energy into photovoltaic cells."

Indeed, but 5% seems more than reasonable, calculating efficiency relative to the thermodynamic minimum for the required transformation of raw materials. This is good enough to be attractive:
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In the context of achievable systems, assume

  • A low value for the mean output power density (1e2 W/m2, already achieved)

  • A high value for the PV cell areal mass density (3e-2 kg/m2, considerably more than some existing multi-junction thin-film cells), and

  • A high value for the energy required per unit mass of cell produced (3e8 J/kg, 10 times the heat of combustion of carbon -- this is motivated by the assumption of oxide starting materials and bad thermodynamic efficiency, ~10%).

The energy payback time with these assumptions is ~1e7 seconds, which is about 4 months. (Yes, this is lot better than what has been achieved with today's lamentably crude methods.)
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"And those biological systems are self-repairing, self-assembling and fully biodegradable."

These are nice properties, but I'd settle for (other means of) low-cost production and maintenance, together with full recyclability.

One must also consider the environmental advantages of consuming no water and only 1/10 as much land area fore equivalent energy production. Replacing total human power consumption, ~ 14e12 W, would require only 0.03% of Earth's surface area. Picture sparse arrays in selected, scattered patches of desert.

Words and ideas I offer here may be used freely and without attribution.

by technopolitical on Sun Jun 10th, 2007 at 06:05:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Actually, there are some quite forward looking discussions of options and possibilities.  There are synthesis discussions that mix visions of great opportunities looming with concerns that there might not be enough time, through Peak Oil & other looming stresses, to discover / develop / and implement these advances.

Blogging regularly at Get Energy Smart. NOW!!!
by a siegel (siegeadATgmailIGNORETHISdotPLEASEcom) on Sat Jun 9th, 2007 at 11:59:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

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