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by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Fri Jul 20th, 2007 at 06:12:16 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Thanks for this, it would seem to support my arguments:

Key findings

... The majority of those surveyed were 'amazed' by the achievements of science, although some expressed concerns about its regulation and control.

Analysis identified six attitudinal groups: 'confident believers', 'technophiles', 'supporters', 'concerned', 'not sure' and 'not for me'. The research offers descriptions of each of these groups.

The majority were "amazed" by the achievements of science - almost the opposite of "hating" it.

And the groups identified showed the range of attitudes which I suggested was more likely to the case with science - the most negative - "not for me" is very far from "hate".

QED :-)

Maybe it's because I'm a Londoner - that I moved to Nice.

by Ted Welch (tedwelch-at-mac-dot-com) on Fri Jul 20th, 2007 at 08:21:28 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Actually I thought it was a mass of contradictory responses, with people being amazed, but a firm majority also agreeing that 'You shouldn't tamper with nature.'

And so on.

If there's a point in that survey, it's that scientific comprehension lacks internal consistency. The public doesn't have much of a model of how science works, and especially how scientific points are made and evaluated.

'Hate' was for rhetorical effect and not meant literally, obviously.

The real point is that people blame science and scientists for issues which aren't their direct responsibility, when they could more profitably be directing those criticisms at economic apologists and the markets.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Fri Jul 20th, 2007 at 08:38:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]
First of all, the !attitudinal groups" were identified and named by the researchers from the survey data. They were not actual attitudes expressed by the respondents.
Attitudinal groups
A key finding of this work has been the identification of attitudinal groups within Britain. Using factor and cluster analysis of the responses to 40 attitude statements, the quantitative research identified six groups.
Confident Believers
Positive, self-confident and outward looking, the Confident Believers (17 per cent of the sample) tend to be interested in science because of the benefits it brings, and their interest in politics means that they tend to have faith in the regulatory system and believe that they can influence Government.They tend to be well off, well educated, middle aged, and more likely to live in the south of Britain.
Technophiles
One-fifth of the total, this, the largest group, is confident, pro-science and well educated in science, but sceptical of politicians.They tend to be confident that they know how to get information when they need to, although they need reassuring that the regulatory system exists and works effectively.
Supporters
Some 17 per cent of the total, this relatively young group tends to be `amazed' by science, engineering and technology and feels self-confident enough to cope with rapid change.They also tend to believe that the Government has got things under control.Although they, like everyone else, express most interest in the medical sciences, they tend to be slightly more interested in the physical sciences - especially engineering - than others.
Concerned
The Concerned is the smallest (13 per cent of the total) and most female (60 per cent) of the clusters. The Concerned have a realistic and positive attitude to life but are sceptical of those in authority.Their social grade, household income and education levels tend to mirror the population as a whole, but they tend to be rather home centred. They are interested in a whole range of topical issues, and they know that science is an important part of life, especially for their children.
Not Sure
This group (17 per cent of the total) tends to have the lowest household incomes, the lowest level of education, and falls into social grades D and E (semi- and unskilled manual workers, and those wholly dependent on state benefits).Their views tend to be unformed: they are neither `anti-science' nor `pro-science'.This is largely because the benefits of science are not always apparent in their daily lives, which are constrained by low income and educational achievement.
Not for Me
This group, 15 per cent of the total, mainly comprises those aged 65 and over, of social grade E women, and of slightly younger men of social grade C2 (skilled manual workers). Like the Not Sure group, they are not particularly interested in political and topical issues nor in science. However, their lack of interest in science does not stop them appreciating its benefits for the future and its importance to young people.
Of interest here would be to look in detail at the methodology used to identify these clusters. Factorial analysis and cluster analysis are useful and powerful techniques, but sometimes they reflect as much the a-priori assumptions of the researchers as what's in the data.

Can the last politician to go out the revolving door please turn the lights off?
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Jul 20th, 2007 at 09:13:18 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Actually I thought it was a mass of contradictory responses, with people being amazed, but a firm majority also agreeing that 'You shouldn't tamper with nature.'

And so on.

If there's a point in that survey, it's that scientific comprehension lacks internal consistency. The public doesn't have much of a model of how science works, and especially how scientific points are made and evaluated.

'Hate' was for rhetorical effect and not meant literally, obviously.

The real point is that people blame science and scientists for issues which aren't their direct responsibility, when they could more profitably be directing those criticisms at economic apologists and the markets.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Fri Jul 20th, 2007 at 09:36:12 AM EST
[ Parent ]
"Actually I thought it was a mass of contradictory responses, with people being amazed, but a firm majority also agreeing that 'You shouldn't tamper with nature.' "

Well one can hardly blame them, given the overwhelming evidence from scientists of the mess we're making of the climate/planet.

I quoted what the study said were the "key findings" - with the majority finding science "amazing » and the groups they identified having the range of views - none of them VERY negative - which I suggested.

"If there's a point in that survey, it's that scientific comprehension lacks internal consistency. The public doesn't have much of a model of how science works, and especially how scientific points are made and evaluated."

Well that's a reasonable point - but a rather different one.

" 'Hate' was for rhetorical effect and not meant literally, obviously."

 Well really !:-) You deplore people's lack of understanding of how scientific points are made and evaluated - in a diary which makes little attempt to reflect such procedures, and then admit that your "main conclusion" was a mere rhetorical device, more suitable in a tabloid's distorted reporting of a scientific issue. And you have the nerve to criticise some authors of books on science ! :-)

"The real point is that people blame science and scientists for issues which aren't their direct responsibility, when they could more profitably be directing those criticisms at economic apologists and the markets."

Ah, so now, having abandoned the main conclusion - which was the motivation for the bulk of the diary - we now come to the "real point" - but yet again it is put in an absurdly general way. "People" -  ALL of them ? Ah, but of course this is just another rhetorical device - you really mean some indeterminate proportion - based on your general experience. In fact I suspect that again the majority don't blame scientists, certainly not if you ask them: Do you blame scientists or politicians and corporations ? - for such unspecified "issues". I'm pretty confident that the majority would blame politicians and corporations for the kind of thing where "criticisms at economic apologists and the markets" would be more appropriate.

Maybe it's because I'm a Londoner - that I moved to Nice.

by Ted Welch (tedwelch-at-mac-dot-com) on Fri Jul 20th, 2007 at 12:22:18 PM EST
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