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You chose a nasty interpretation of Fran's comment, focusing on the "Would be nice if you could add a little more information to your diary, than only a link" rather than the "Not all readers here are from France, UK or the US, so might not be aware if he is relevant". And you're still focusing on that, without acknowledging any responsibility on your part in escalating this.

Fran is not a native English speaker. She posts the Salon every morning (spending a lot of time and effort to do so), so you might have noticed that she is a pillar of the community. She is nice, it shines through all her comments. So it is not surprising that the communoity would be offended at your harsh interpretation of her words.

I've acknowledged that you could interpret her comment differently than it was meant, since you're not a regular. I've responded to your questions about who's an arbiter, and what are the rules here. I've suggested some ways for both sides to back pedal from the early confrontation.

Other members of the community have commented on the substance of the diary.

What else do you want?


In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes

by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Sat Jul 21st, 2007 at 04:46:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I hope that out of the 40 some odd comments-most of them being my replies to other replies shows how unconstructive it can be to not have a dialogue based on the substance of a diary rather than what I perceived to be the nitpicking over how the diary was written. Maybe this will be a lesson to all of us of what a waste of time it is to have meaningless dialogue.

Goodnight and Good luck

by An American in London on Sat Jul 21st, 2007 at 04:55:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I can agree with that comment, so it's good that we can end on a more positive note.

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes
by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Sat Jul 21st, 2007 at 05:05:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]
But Fran's comment was very much about the substance of this diary - or rather the lack thereof. Everything that happened after that is entirely your own doing.

I'm not claiming my own diaries are literary masterpieces, but if someone raises an issue in the comments, I try to add corrections and updates. Obviously I contribute (however minor my contributions may be) because I enjoy doing so, but if I wasn't prepared to accept some constructive criticism, I'd just let my writings collect dust on my hard drive.

"The basis of optimism is sheer terror" - Oscar Wilde

by NordicStorm (michael<-at->sturmbaum.net) on Mon Jul 23rd, 2007 at 09:07:05 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Crikey, what a storm in a tea-cup.

It was a good link: it belonged in the Salon, but our friend, like me, hadn't read the Guidelines (lesson learnt by me!).

Add the fact that we're "divided by a common language", and this is what we get....

"Any economic unit can emit money. The serious problem is to get it accepted" Hyman Minsky

by ChrisCook (cojockathotmaildotcom) on Sat Jul 21st, 2007 at 04:56:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]
"Crikey, what a storm in a tea-cup."

My - very British - thought too :-)

" ... our friend, like me, hadn't read the Guidelines (lesson learnt by me!)."

Me too - I NOW learn you only have to spend about ONE hour on a diary ! CRIKEY! :-)

Perhaps the stubborn arrogance displayed needs our understanding and compassion - after all he is an American :-) Sadly they're not exactly noted for their humility and consideration; here in France I so Often hear American voices rising above those of everyone else (except perhaps the Italians) in restaurants - clearly THEIR conversations are the most important and we'd no doubt benefit from hearing them :-)

I read somewhere that this attitude comes in part from an education system which tends to emphasize positive feedback to boost pupils' self-confidence - while in France the feedback is often highly critical and negative (possibly in French or Foe by Polly Platt, a nice American :-)).

It's a pity that he uses "good night and good luck", Ed Murrow's way of ending his broadcasts, which displayed courage, lots of research, persistence, but not arrogance - like the contributions of so many of our American members - of course :-)

Maybe it's because I'm a Londoner - that I moved to Nice.

by Ted Welch (tedwelch-at-mac-dot-com) on Sun Jul 22nd, 2007 at 10:23:56 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Aren't you clever!!! I am surprised that Jerome would allow such a blatant display of sarcastic character assasination considering Jerome's penchant for civil discourse or does his criteria only apply to people who agree with him?

While the 'education system  emphasized positive feedback to boost my self-confidence' at the age of six; my favorite pet donkey died on our farm. As I was crying over my loss; my father said I shouldn't be too upset because the donkey would come back to life in my later years. I guess it has in the form of the jackass who wrote the clever comment I am replying to :>)

by An American in London on Mon Jul 23rd, 2007 at 04:48:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I do try to be consistent, and not to focus on agreement/disagreement.
At this stage in threads, it's a bit pointless to intervene in side disputes, unless they are really worth censoring. I focused on my direct dialogur with you.

(and sorry for the delay in responding, I was travelling)

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes

by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Wed Jul 25th, 2007 at 01:41:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]
You consider his blatant sarcastic character assasination to be a side dispute.

I am saddened by your unprincipled way in which you monitor your site.

It is one thing for me to admonish Fran for what I perceived to be a petty comment but it is quite another for you to ignore personal attacks clothed in sarcasm and then rationalize them as side disputes.

by An American in London on Thu Jul 26th, 2007 at 06:56:24 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Lawks-a-mussy!!!
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Thu Jul 26th, 2007 at 08:23:20 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Where do you see "blatant sarcastic character assasination"? His post might be construed as an over -generalisation and somewhat anti-American, but he seems to be accusing you mostly of arrogance. Which is not necessarily an insult, you know!

Anyway, the standard to judge a comment is not quite the same at the beginning of a thread, when it is an overreaction to something that might be innocuous (or not), than after a 50-comment thread of "vigorous" discussion, where you generated, rightly or wrongly, a lot of hostility from several posters.

You chose to feel insulted by Fran's innocent question/request, lashed out and were unhappy to be called on it. Now you are again choosing to feel smeared here. To which I can only say: choose differently. Then I'll change my standards towards you.

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes

by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Thu Jul 26th, 2007 at 05:08:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]
This is a classic case of a bull in a china shop, or not knowing the lie of the land. But I believe it is excusable.

For regulars here, Fran is a committed treasure of blogging, who never has a harsh word for anyone - only queries. It is not surprising that some Don Quixotes (and if Daily Tossers are called Kossaks, then why shouldn't we be called Quixotes?), would rise gallantly to her defence. We ET males are, mostly, gentlemen.

I think both sides were unaware of the two-sided context of misunderstanding. I suggest that we draw a line under it and begin again.

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Thu Jul 26th, 2007 at 05:53:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Your equating my reaction to Fran's comment being the same as the character assasination of Ted is wrong. For him to attack my educational background and nationality in any context, sarcastic or not, is far different from my characterization of Fran's comment.

I only bring this up , not because I am offended by his comment ( I have much harder skin than to worry about a 'toff' like Ted) but to expose the double standard which you seem to modrate the site by. Your rationale of his comment being the 50th and not the 1st is not valid. Personal character assasination should not be tolerated at any time.

He should have been told this and possibly have his posting of his photographs suspended from appeaing on the site for a month with the exception of those photographs of his wife :-)

by An American in London on Fri Jul 27th, 2007 at 03:31:55 AM EST
[ Parent ]
* [new] Re: Sigh... (none / 0)
Your equating my reaction to Fran's comment being the same as the character assasination of Ted is wrong. For him to attack my educational background and nationality in any context, sarcastic or not, is far different from my characterization of Fran's comment.
I only bring this up , not because I am offended by his comment ( I have much harder skin than to worry about a 'toff' like Ted) but to expose the double standard which you seem to modrate the site by. Your rationale of his comment being the 50th and not the 1st is not valid. Personal character assasination should not be tolerated at any time.

He should have been told this and possibly have his posting of his photographs suspended from appeaing on the site for a month with the exception of those photographs of his wife :-)

by An American in London on Fri Jul 27th, 2007 at 03:32:57 AM EST
[ Parent ]

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