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There used to be Mutal Insurance companies that were responsive to their customers - strange notion, 'eh?  They have been eliminated by the majors through buy-outs or predatory competition.

A doo run-run-run, a doo run-run
by ATinNM on Sat Jul 7th, 2007 at 12:30:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]
'Mutual' is an important word in the global context. We are all, after all, sitting on this rock orbiting through space and there are no guarantees of tenancy ;-)

Hey, does anyone have the deeds to Planet Earth? I thought not.....

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Sat Jul 7th, 2007 at 01:10:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Hey, does anyone have the deeds to Planet Earth?

Mother Nature enters stage left with a broom shouting "shoo !! shoo !!"

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Sun Jul 8th, 2007 at 03:26:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I believe that "predatory" behaviour can work two ways.

If one were to set up a mutual as a "Guarantee Society" on a partnership basis (which is what Muslims do on a massive basis incidentally, because conventional insurance is impermissible or "haram" - they call mutual insurance "Takaful") then it is a simple matter to work with a managing/operating partner.

The shipping industry has long had what is called "P&I Clubs" insuring hulls mutually in this way with managing agents such as Thomas Miller.

The innovation I would add to the above is an  LLP/LLC "Capital Partnership" enterprise model, of course. Any necessary Capital will be obtained from investors in the future cash flow.

The predatory outcome is that the premiums a mutualised "Not for Loss" operation charges can always undercut those charged by the toxic "for profit" variety.

It's called the "Cooperative Advantage".

Where it gets interesting in the medical area is the "partnerising" of hospitals run "For Profit" to create a partnership between the community of people using the service, and the community of people providing it.

Basically the deal is of a "Community Buy Out", funded by selling future revenues to local investors.

The deal for the staff is this.

"You've got $y to play with this year. We want this (agreed) level of care. You get to keep x% of any savings you make in administration, innovative treatments, preventative measures, and so on.

And its up to you how you organise yourselves and share it out.

If you see new treatments, or need capital expenditure on new kit, lets agree the investment case and how to fund it,and the effect on premiums into the Pool.

For the existing investors it's great too, because they get an "exit" at a level they would otherwise never get.

The reason for this is that the Community's "cost of Capital" ( a reasonable "index-linked" return) is less than the daft rates demanded by the greedy bastards in the City and Wall Street.

by ChrisCook (cojockathotmaildotcom) on Sat Jul 7th, 2007 at 02:02:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]
There used to be Mutual Insurance companies in the upper Mid-West owned and run on exactly the lines you have laid-out.  Typically the policies were available through local "Son's of {insert name of a Scandinavian country here}" which kinda explains the whole thing.

The "predatory" aspect of the competition was the majors came in an sold policies below the correct risk-price.  Illegal as hell but the regulators didn't do their job.

A doo run-run-run, a doo run-run

by ATinNM on Sat Jul 7th, 2007 at 02:57:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Well, in the same way that some car insurers employ their own repair shops, I think that it is necessary to merge the health insurance pool and the people who actually get the money from the health insurers thereby cutting out or merging TWO (conflicting) sources of "rentier" drain from the system.

It can be done, for sure, and it is innovative use of LLC's etc that make it possible.

by ChrisCook (cojockathotmaildotcom) on Sat Jul 7th, 2007 at 03:03:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]
That's what makes it so damn frustrating.  There's no objective reason for the US to be so screwed-up.  Less than one percent of the US population benefits yet most of the population gives one the "lights are on but no one's home" stare when alternatives are presented.

<sigh>

A doo run-run-run, a doo run-run

by ATinNM on Sat Jul 7th, 2007 at 03:46:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]
They do it because they can. No other reason is needed.
by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Sun Jul 8th, 2007 at 05:12:50 AM EST
[ Parent ]

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