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No, they're the opposing side - old chap :-) To be serious - I don't think it's ever a good idea to treat anyone as a mere thing, like a ball - that's what is used, in military training, to enable people to kill and torture others: "After all, they're not really people - like us."

But I do think it's a good idea to be very honest with each other, which might even mean saying that an argument is bloody stupid - if one really thinks it is. Though calling members of OUR team "flat earthers and extremist mullahs rolled into one... evil and stupid ... fantastically clueless", would be a bit "shrill" :-)

"Do not fear the enemies who hate you, fear the friends who flatter you." Nietzsche


Maybe it's because I'm a Londoner - that I moved to Nice.

by Ted Welch (tedwelch-at-mac-dot-com) on Fri Aug 17th, 2007 at 10:35:19 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I'm being shrill because this is not a numbers game. This is not about what appears on a spreadsheet at the end of the trading period.

This is about real people losing real jobs and real homes and real health care. It's about a real eco-system being stripped bare with real physical effects. It's about real semi-permanent damage to seas and rivers and water tables that's going to take generations to correct itself - if it ever does.

It's about the biggest resource pillage in history, with very real and very literal strip-mining of energy, metals, top-soil, human labour, and other essential life-support elements, with no thought at all to managing extraction over a reasonable time-frame.

All of this is happening so these spivs and enablers can pontificate in their plummy pinstripe tones about how wonderful the markets are - while competing with each other about who has the biggest yacht and the biggest holiday home.

If there's something defensible going on here, it's really not easy to see what it might be.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Fri Aug 17th, 2007 at 11:10:43 AM EST
[ Parent ]

"If there's something defensible going on here, it's really not easy to see what it might be."

Of course I think the situation is terrible too, but talking about people as "evil" and "mullahs" is the kind of thing I expect in one of Bush's speeches rather than here. I don't think your generalised harangues make it much easier to see what is going on -- or what to do about it - kill all those you deem to be "evil" ? But I'm sure writing them makes you feel better :-)

Maybe it's because I'm a Londoner - that I moved to Nice.

by Ted Welch (tedwelch-at-mac-dot-com) on Fri Aug 17th, 2007 at 05:48:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I'm not talking about killing anyone.

But I don't apologise for lumping Free Market dogma in with the other religious follies of the day. They're indistinguishable as far as I can tell - with the difference that Market Fundamentalists are far more dangerous than other fundies because they have real power, rather than simply aspiring to it.

As for the ethics - what other words would you suggest for a system which has killed millions, ruined entire countries and done trillions of dollars of damage to a life support system that we all rely on?

Not terribly nice? A bit misguided? Possibly not the best of all possible worlds?

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Fri Aug 17th, 2007 at 09:42:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Well, while you're condemning "religious follies" I'd suggest you avoid the use of "evil".

Maybe it's because I'm a Londoner - that I moved to Nice.
by Ted Welch (tedwelch-at-mac-dot-com) on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 04:03:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]
They may be the opposing side, but they're not in this forum discussing with us.

Les absents ont toujours tort.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Fri Aug 17th, 2007 at 12:43:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Ah, progress - now they are "the other side", so actually human, but, as they're not in OUR team - everything is permitted ?

Maybe it's because I'm a Londoner - that I moved to Nice.
by Ted Welch (tedwelch-at-mac-dot-com) on Fri Aug 17th, 2007 at 05:30:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

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