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Ah, yes, but "data protection", "confidentiality", "fill in this form", yada yada.

(Actually that applies more to the UK than the US. In the States it seems you can usually get the stuff you want. So , yes, where is the torrent?)

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sapere aude

by Number 6 on Thu Aug 16th, 2007 at 08:38:44 AM EST
[ Parent ]
May be our resident swedish ET'ers can comment on that swedish level of transparency:

http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2007/06/18/europe/EU-FEA-Sweden-Online-Snooping.php


In Sweden, online service revealing any person's salary draws heavy use -- and wrath
The Associated Press
Published: June 17, 2007

STOCKHOLM, Sweden: Wonder how much your boss earns? Is your bragging neighbor as rich as he claims? Does your daughter's boyfriend have any major debts?

For Swedes, it takes little more than a few clicks on the Internet to find out.

Personal details such as income, marital status and college grades have long been public information in this tightly structured country. But as credit information sites made the information available online, many Swedes worried the national tradition of transparency was being stretched too far.

Faced with public anger and pressure from authorities, providers of online credit checks last week agreed to alter a service that allowed Swedes to snoop through each other's finances anonymously and free of charge.

"Your neighbor knows what you're making, your brother-in law knows what you're making, and people around you can know whether you're on any records for outstanding payments. It's private and a bit embarrassing," said Hans Karnlof, a lawyer at the Swedish Data Inspection Board.

Online credit checks became a popular pastime in Sweden after a Web site called Ratsit.se in November started publishing financial details, free-of-charge, from the national tax authority. The site has some 610,000 registered users -- in a country of 9 million -- and handled an average of 50,000 online credit checks a day.

The service allowed users to snoop financial information simply by typing in someone's name and clicking on "search."

Authorities said the noble purpose of Sweden's transparency laws was being abused for frivolous credit checks, and pressured Ratsit and similar Web sites to impose some restrictions.
[...]

The National Tax Board decided to throw a spanner in the wheel.

While the law obliges the board to give out tax information, it does not say in what form. So tax authorities simply threatened to supply the information on paper, instead of electronically, which is the standard. That would have created a major headache for the credit information agencies, forcing them to scan millions of records.
[...]

Note that making this information public is a great advantage for the poor and socially less-connected (see salary negociations part of the article).

by Laurent GUERBY on Thu Aug 16th, 2007 at 09:04:11 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Dude! Sounds like the early "polite" days of the internet. (Cf "The Cuckoo's Egg".) Or some say "naive".

(As with YouTube I do have to ask: what's the business model for ratsit.se? Advertising? Meet adblock, and good luck with your bandwidth fees.)

Funny, I don't appear to exist, perhaps since I've been living abroad for years. Maybe I'll stay out ...

Seriously, though, personal data (and voting record) of individual citizens should be kept more secret than public data (and parliamentary votes). I guess a lot of the juicy stuff would still be in Post- och Inrikes Tidningar


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sapere aude

by Number 6 on Thu Aug 16th, 2007 at 09:37:08 AM EST
[ Parent ]
In Sweden all governamental information that is not secret (for a specific reason, for example ongoing police investigation) is public. It has been this way since the parliamentarly ruled period in the 18th century (powerless kings and queens 1719-1772) when two political parties (hats and caps) were fighting for power. Making most information public was a way of being able to trust each other (revolution always being an option). So since then you have been able to go and check taxes and - since the income tax - salaries. You can also go to a school and get every pupils grades. Or get all incoming or outgoing mail (except the secret ones) to the prime minister. Or whatever your heart desires. And you do not have to state your name or purpose.

Originally this meant you could read stuff in the library or lobby, and make what copies you like (with your quill pen). After the invention of the xerox machine you could get copies, provided you pay a small fee for the print. Now online information is the next step.

However, even though you are tought in school that you have a right to get information, few do. Mostly journalists or other professionals use it. Now that information is coming online the amount of information the government has on the individuals becomes shockingly obvious. It was not quite the same in the 18th centruy. This led as the article states to outrage against this service.

My position is that all public information should be available online (no big surprise there), however maybe some information that today is public should be classified in some way. For example, your medicial journals are protected, only you and the medical personel treating you may check them (naturally you can plaster your own journal anywhere you want). Maybe your tax returns should be protected too, if it is indeed the case that people can not stand that others know their salary. Personally I have no problems with people being able to check my salary as long as I can check theirs. And I can, all I need is taxeringskalendern, a little book with everyones taxes. Been around for ages, and I can find it at my local library.

Publishing everything online would also stimulate needed debate on what information the government should have on you at all. Todays system where those with time or money (to buy others time) gets the information, while the poor or socially disconnected do not is no way to run an information society.

/stepping down from soap box...

A vote for PES is a vote for EPP! A vote for EPP is a vote for PES! Support the coalition, vote EPP-PES in 2009!

by A swedish kind of death on Thu Aug 16th, 2007 at 09:49:44 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Of course there's a very limited set of information that government collect or produce and that shouldn't be made public.

For the reason I stated, I see no reason not to publish income and wealth.

In France, you can check your neighbours stated income and taxes if you want to, see on my blog "Politique fiscale et transparence" (in french), but it's paper only and you cannot publish the information. And few french taxpayers know this.

If you look at privacy (even health status), your bank knows everything about you. As would an association of businesses.

by Laurent GUERBY on Thu Aug 16th, 2007 at 12:19:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]
It is the same in Finland. And it leads to a very interesting policing capability. If you are stopped in your car by a traffic cop and given a fine, the fine is calculated by 'days' according to the severity of the offence. A 'day' is how much you earn in a day. Thus such fines are proportional to income, and the 'punishment' equitable to all.

It is only possible because the traffic cops can tap into their in-car networked computer. They find exactly the value of your 'day' ;-) and the amount is entered in the citation.

I have a British licence, so on the couple of occasions I've been stopped, they take my word for the amount I earn (about which I am honest)

The system has lead to young IT whizz-kids in their Ferraris getting whacked heavily - in one severe speeding case I recall, it was a 286,000 € fine. Quite rightly, too ;-)

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Fri Aug 17th, 2007 at 11:14:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Yes that's one problem with fines in many system, they're fixed amount and so socially injust.

Happy to see at least one country has that fixed this by using transparency :).

by Laurent GUERBY on Fri Aug 17th, 2007 at 03:23:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

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