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September 11th should remain as a solemn day of remembrance for the people who were murdered that day in what was the single worst terror attack in history. This day for the foreseeable future should be reserved for the families and friends of those victims to mourn their loved ones. This is not a day that anyone should use to advance any kind of personal political agenda. It has only been six years and I can assure you that any groups that attempt to use this day for personal gain will find their cause severely blemished. That has nothing to do with freedom of speech - just common sense.
by BJ Lange (langebj@gmail.com) on Fri Aug 17th, 2007 at 06:13:20 AM EST
Doesn't seem to have done Bush and company any harm to use that day for personal and partisan gain.
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Fri Aug 17th, 2007 at 06:22:01 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Two (or more) wrongs don't make it right.
I would agree that whomever the President is must always say or do something but on that day it should remain non-political. Obviously my comment has nothing to do with the day before or the day after or any other day. People are free to do what they wish.
by BJ Lange (langebj@gmail.com) on Fri Aug 17th, 2007 at 07:14:33 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Two (or more) wrongs don't make it right.

Of course, but it speaks to your wider point: exploitation of 9/11 is not automatically a losing proposition.
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Fri Aug 17th, 2007 at 07:37:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]
As with any event it is always political fodder for either side, just not on the day of 9/11. That's a day when this should all take a day off and allow the families of these victims a day to themselves.

Regarding the politicization of 9/11 I think Republicans took it too far and now are paying a price for over-exploitation, such as the lack of action on the 9/11 Commission recommendations and the fact that the tall bearded skinny guy is still hanging around.

by BJ Lange (langebj@gmail.com) on Fri Aug 17th, 2007 at 09:13:25 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Same comment I made on Kos Diary:

The Bush admin has been the first to capitalize on the victims for a preset political agenda.

Saying activism cannot be acheived because it dishonors the victims is, sorry to say, not entirely honest, because the victims of the attacks would most certainly not want their deaths to be exploited to usurp our rights as citizens, and justify more wars at our expense.

Addendum: Victims' families, firefighters and ill ground zero workers are all clamoring for health care, continued declassification and new investigations into unanswered questions.

by Monsieur le Prof (top notch records [all one word] at gmail dot com) on Fri Aug 17th, 2007 at 10:31:32 AM EST
[ Parent ]
"The Bush admin has been the first to capitalize on the victims for a preset political agenda."

I agree and don't condone. But if you go back to events of subsequent anniversaries even they maintain that day as a solemn occasion.

"Saying activism cannot be acheived because it dishonors the victims is, sorry to say, not entirely honest . . . "

Exactly how many victims did you know that you can make that claim?

" . . .  because the victims of the attacks would most certainly not want their deaths to be exploited to usurp our rights as citizens, and justify more wars at our expense."

Regarding "our rights as citizens" that should be up to U.S.citizens. As far as the rest of the diatribe, there are 364 other days to make that case by citizens of the U.S. Making that case on September 11 inappropriate to say the very least. If you don't understand that then I would suggest you check your own moral compass.

"Addendum: Victims' families, firefighters and ill ground zero workers are all clamoring for health care"

My son is part of the group that is helping first responders with their resperatory problems so I am well aware of the health care issues regarding them.

" . . . continued declassification and new investigations into unanswered questions."

Unanswered questions about what? Are you one of those sick people who are claiming that 9/11 was a U.S. government conspiracy. I think Markos characterized this better than I could.

by BJ Lange (langebj@gmail.com) on Fri Aug 17th, 2007 at 12:16:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]
You're calling anyone who has questions about 9-11 a "sick person" ?

I think this conversation is over.

by Monsieur le Prof (top notch records [all one word] at gmail dot com) on Fri Aug 17th, 2007 at 01:55:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I think any rational person would do the same.
by BJ Lange (langebj@gmail.com) on Fri Aug 17th, 2007 at 02:20:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]
This is nobody's personal agenda!  This is about the common good, for the people; the families included!  It is an honor to the victims to act against an absolutely corrupt regime.

I cannot understand this fixed thinking about what´s sacred and untouchable, or national hero worship.

Our knowledge has surpassed our wisdom. --Charu Saxena.

by metavision on Sat Aug 18th, 2007 at 05:16:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]
"I cannot understand this fixed thinking about what´s sacred and untouchable, or national hero worship."

There is no "hero worship" involved in this and it is a deplorable comment to make and would be more careful in choosing your language.

The fact that you "cannot understand this fixed thinking" is your answer. Did you personally know a single person that was killed or their families, let along dozens of people? These were not martyrs or soldiers. They were all innocent people either travelling or working that morning who were slaughtered for the sake of some perverted sense of Islamic justice.

This would "not be an honor to the victims." In fact you would be trampling over the right these families have to remember them in their own way - not your way. For anyone to abuse that day for their own personal agenda is unconscionable which is why no one has done it or will do it unless they have no conscience.

by BJ Lange (langebj@gmail.com) on Sun Aug 19th, 2007 at 09:27:49 AM EST
[ Parent ]
If you won´t stretch your mind, I won´t waste my time.

Our knowledge has surpassed our wisdom. --Charu Saxena.
by metavision on Sun Aug 19th, 2007 at 10:46:57 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I think you should re-check the morailty of the abuse of that day and not question me or many, many more on the flexibility of conscience.
by BJ Lange (langebj@gmail.com) on Sun Aug 19th, 2007 at 11:40:26 AM EST
[ Parent ]
in what was the single worst terror attack in history

?

Don't fight forces, use them R. Buckminster Fuller.

by rg (leopold dot lepster at google mail dot com) on Sun Aug 19th, 2007 at 09:48:50 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Yes, factually there was never more people killed in a single terror event.
by BJ Lange (langebj@gmail.com) on Sun Aug 19th, 2007 at 10:30:46 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Well that all depends on your definiton of a "terror event" into the narrowing of definition to exclude acts by governments which took place in the 1950's

Previous to that you'll find that terror events were exclusively things comitted by governments against civilians. so it would seem that historically the 9/11 episode is quite minor, if you want to go for a real historical high point you would probably choose the invasions of Saxony during the 30 years war where in the region of 70% of the countries population were wiped out by  war disease and religious terror from both sides.

Life should consist in at least fifty percent pure waste of time, and the rest doing what you please.

by ceebs (bunchofwankers (at) gmail (dot) com) on Sun Aug 19th, 2007 at 11:09:21 AM EST
[ Parent ]
True. That statement should be adjusted to reflect only modern history.
by BJ Lange (langebj@gmail.com) on Sun Aug 19th, 2007 at 11:41:22 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Then you'd probably still need to cede superiority to the Rwanda massacres, or the allied air attacks on Baghdad.

Life should consist in at least fifty percent pure waste of time, and the rest doing what you please.
by ceebs (bunchofwankers (at) gmail (dot) com) on Sun Aug 19th, 2007 at 11:50:43 AM EST
[ Parent ]
The Rwanda Massacres is plural - not one attack. That would also include ethnic cleansing attacks countries like Bosnia, Chechnya, Darfur, etc.

The bombings of Baghdad is an act of war and not a terror attack much the same way Hezbollah rockets attacks on Israel are acts of war and not terror. By your definition then any bombings during any war would be regarded as acts of terror.

by BJ Lange (langebj@gmail.com) on Sun Aug 19th, 2007 at 12:45:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I'm interested, in what way do you classify terror attacks as being part of a seperate class? different to bombings during war?

Life should consist in at least fifty percent pure waste of time, and the rest doing what you please.
by ceebs (bunchofwankers (at) gmail (dot) com) on Sun Aug 19th, 2007 at 04:37:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Terror attacks are intended to target innocent civilians. Attacks as part of conventional warefare are intended to target strategic military targets. What tney have is common is that both are terrifying.
by BJ Lange (langebj@gmail.com) on Sun Aug 19th, 2007 at 05:21:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]
By that count the RAF and the USAF's bombing campaign against germany could be classed as terrorism, as they were at least partly aimed at destroying the Morale of the German populace

Life should consist in at least fifty percent pure waste of time, and the rest doing what you please.
by ceebs (bunchofwankers (at) gmail (dot) com) on Sun Aug 19th, 2007 at 06:29:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]
you forgot the Nazi bombings of London. The the dropping of the atom bombs by the U.S. on Japan were clearly intended to terrorize the Japanese government into surrendering - those were not simply strategic military targets and unfortunate collateral damage.
by BJ Lange (langebj@gmail.com) on Sun Aug 19th, 2007 at 08:45:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]
not forgot, just took one example that was generally taken to be A good thing. The use of the Atom Bomb  is another good example, the Nazi bombing of London not so much, as the Nazi government is seen to be evil anyway.

Life should consist in at least fifty percent pure waste of time, and the rest doing what you please.
by ceebs (bunchofwankers (at) gmail (dot) com) on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 02:52:44 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I can totally understand the point you're making, but I still think that 9/11 would be a good date for a strike, to simply remember the moment when the whole world was united against these crazy criminals - and the wrong path the US took since then.
And I think it's stupid to label some terrible acts as "terrorist" and putting it in another category than (war) crimes. To go a little further back, when the Mongols killed 1 million Arab civilians after the capture of Baghdad, in which way was that different other than it required an army?
But I can see where you're coming from. No offence.

"If you know your enemies and know yourself, you will not be imperiled in a hundred battles." Sun Tzu
by Turambar (sersguenda at hotmail com) on Wed Aug 22nd, 2007 at 06:01:44 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Political activists generally are real bad at public relations and don't understand the full context of their actions at times.

"the wrong path the US took since then" - - - right after 9/11 the U.S. immediately secured the country against a lot of unknown factors and then went after Al Qaeda in Afghanistan. The wrong path did not come until the invasion of Iraq, which had nothing to do with 9/11. So using 9/11 as a protest against Iraq is inappropriate anyway.

There were 3,000 innocent men, women and children massacred in one day. The families and friends of those people have a right to honor and mourn those people without any distractions.

Any strikes or protests can come the day before or the day after. On that day any self-serving political demonstrations will be rebuked by many.

by BJ Lange (langebj@gmail.com) on Wed Aug 22nd, 2007 at 07:32:12 AM EST
[ Parent ]
The wrong path did not come until the invasion of Iraq
I'm not so sure about that. But I won't argue this point, it's in the details.

which had nothing to do with 9/11
At the time, the connection was being made, so the question is: would they've done it without 9/11 happening before? Your guess is as good as mine.

have a right to honor and mourn those people without any distractions
Actions designed to prevent more people getting killed are no distraction IMHO

rebuked by many
I agree on that. Faux Noise and friends will be all over the place and it could turn into a PR disaster. As an outsider, I can make no good estimate on what the American public's reaction will be like.
Maybe the only real difference in opinion between us is in what the outcome of a strike might be. If you're right and it would hurt the cause it's trying to support, it certainly isn't a bright idea.
But that would make a very sad statement about the media landscape and the formation of public opinion in the US. And in such a climate, I don't think real change is possible whoever is going to be the next president.

"If you know your enemies and know yourself, you will not be imperiled in a hundred battles." Sun Tzu

by Turambar (sersguenda at hotmail com) on Wed Aug 22nd, 2007 at 08:16:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I could see a strike happen on a symbolic day such as the day we invaded Iraq or the day Bush declared "Mission Accomplished." I could see those days be a mobilizing event. But even with those days I do not see mass protest of any kind in our future.

There was a time when people would turn out in large numbers to protest and risk harm in doing so. But then came the Internet and most protests occur this way now.

What was suggested in this post was a strike to get the U.S. government to tell the truth about the 9/11 attack and the author was claiming that it was an inside job. You will not find more than 5% of the U.S. population supporting such a notion and, in fact, such a notion will be met with immediate rebuke by all political sides.

by BJ Lange (langebj@gmail.com) on Wed Aug 22nd, 2007 at 04:02:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

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