European Tribune - Comments - Monday

Monday - Open Thread | 259 comments (259 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)

There's a discussion thread on Kos on the possibility of a UK general election. It's kinda funny cos I just don't believe it.

First time ever I wish I could post on kos.

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 12:21:36 PM EST

Re: election thread (4.00 / 3)

so why don't you'

by zoe on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 12:22:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: election thread (4.00 / 4)

I ain't registered. I've never signed up for kos, I had a very bad experience commenting on American political discussions on another site, "you're a foreigner, you have no right to any opinion on the USA whatsoever"... that sort of thing.

So I just decided that I'd leave them to it.

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 12:48:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: election thread (4.00 / 4)

I normally answer that with, "yes I have, it's in your constitution, "all men are created equal" so I've just as much right to complain as you have"

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.

by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 12:51:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: election thread (4.00 / 4)

The Constitution confers rights on citizens, it offers nothing to non-citizens.

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 01:10:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: election thread (4.00 / 4)

And I always get the declaration of independence and the preamble to the constitution mixed up. ;-)

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.

by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 01:23:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: election thread (4.00 / 3)

don't let one ass stop your expressing yourself. you know that there will be some people who disagree no matter what you say, so go for it.

I think it takes a day to have your registration there functioning.

And you know you have lots to say on the subject ...

by zoe on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 12:54:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: election thread (4.00 / 3)

It wasn't just one ass. It was simply experiencing a load of people whom I genuinely believe are quite liberal, genuinely resenting some bloody foreigner saying anything remotely critical (moi ??) about the domestic and foreign policies of the USA.

Even when I was out there it was quite bizarre to discover that, even if I agreed with friends who were democrats in their criticism of Bush, I'd be told "Y'know, we're really very tired of people coming over here and whining about our country, if you don't like it you know where you can go".

I genuinely didn't enjoy the experience and have no intention of being labelled another "f*cking european weasel" on kos like one of our front pagers. So I'll leave them to it.

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 01:06:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: election thread (4.00 / 4)

well, I find that Americans tend to be much more confrontational and this includes online discussions. Instead of reading someone's opinion and thinking "That's interesting, but I disagree" they have this need to lash out.

I know a lot of Americans will disagree with me about that, but that is the biggest difference between Americans and Canadians or Europeans.

by zoe on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 01:15:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: election thread (4.00 / 2)

There are upsides to that, though - you generally know where you are at with Americans. Here I feel similar effects to what Helen is describing. People are much nicer "to my face" than what a European might experience on dkos, but I can sense a lot of resentment just under the surface. Redstar is the only person here that has directly lashed out at me that I can think of.

This also brings to mind something that Will Ferguson said - "Americans might be the loudest people in the room, but Canadians are definitely the second loudest."

you are the media you consume.

by MillMan (millguy at gmail) on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 01:41:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: election thread (4.00 / 4)

you sense resentment here? can you explain a little

by zoe on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 01:47:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: election thread (4.00 / 4)

Resentment, irritation, not sure how to describe it. It's not all encompassing. I think it's an expression of European style nationalism, which I'm not qualified to talk about. On the other hand everyone is pretty open and welcoming, which is why I participate here.

you are the media you consume.

by MillMan (millguy at gmail) on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 02:12:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: election thread (4.00 / 7)

Here I feel similar effects to what Helen is describing. People are much nicer "to my face" than what a European might experience on dkos, but I can sense a lot of resentment just under the surface.

Yes, I'm sure that can happen. I know I can be harsh myself sometimes, but I hope that most of the time I vent my frustrations on the US Government rather than Americans. And I'm also careful to be far more scathing about the British govt than any other.

But if ever I offend, I really don't mean it. I love the fact that americans feel comfortable and like to comment here. It helps.

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 01:52:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: election thread (4.00 / 2)

Your recent comment that I lashed out against didn't bother me on a personal level, actually. The comments that bother me are of the type that relish in American failures in what amounts to middle class self-aggrandizement. That's what primarily bothers me about dkos, actually (I don't participate there either).

you are the media you consume.

by MillMan (millguy at gmail) on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 02:17:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: election thread (4.00 / 2)

I don't get it. Can you elaborate about the middle-class thingie please. I am seriously interested in understanding the dkos phenomenon.

by zoe on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 02:24:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: election thread (4.00 / 3)

what bothers me about dKos is that if you disagree with someone, you are automatically a troll.

by zoe on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 02:30:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: election thread (4.00 / 4)

What really bothers me about kos is that if you criticise AIPAC you get banned.

There's a little group on there, including a coupla front-pagers, who will do anything to prevent criticism of likud-Israel taking root there.

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 02:38:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: election thread (4.00 / 4)

I don't know how much of that is to prevent dKos from being called anti-Semitic but I also know that Israeli organizations scour the blog and get their supporters to challenge anyone who posts anything remotely anti-Israel.

that is one reason I don't give my real e-mail address here because I have been targeted by some of these people, and this, months after I posted some criticisms of Israel

by zoe on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 02:45:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: election thread (4.00 / 3)

I'm sorry to hear that. I too have a lot of criticisms of Israel's policies (see, even here I self-censor and qualify statements. I support Israel and its existence, just not some of its policies) that I've had to keep silent on blogs because there are too many people willing to jump on me and call me a self-hating Jew. I'm non-religious and have more in common philosophically with Taoism, but apparently I'm supposed to shut down my brain when it comes to anything Israel does....

by lychee on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 03:28:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Foreigners (4.00 / 3)

Hey, if they can tolerate a French guy...
Plus, who says you have to say explicitly you're a foreigner?

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes

by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 02:35:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Foreigners (4.00 / 3)

Well, you're the exception that proves the rule. I always got the impression that your acceptance was due to commenting on energy issues, which allowed you to branch out into more "exciting" areas.

I just tended to wade into the conversation in my only-ever-so-slightly confrontational clod-hopping way and people didn't like hearing some foreigner talk about the USA in that way. On that site, my nationality had been well-established long before.

I really didn't fancy repeating the experience on kos.

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 02:45:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Foreigners (4.00 / 3)

no, Jerome had to fight to get accepted at Daily Kos. Luckily for him, he is stubborn so he didn't give up.

by zoe on Mon Aug 20th, 2007 at 04:13:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Monday - Open Thread | 259 comments (259 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)

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