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If one takes 'viability' as the limit, then one should always be able to have an 'abortion'. If the child is considered to be viable, simply remove it, put it in one of those incubator thingies, and offer it for adoption. If it is not viable, abort and discard.

Besides, alive is clearly not the criterion to use here. Animals and even plants are alive, yet they can for the most part be killed at will. I think 'alive and sufficiently human-like' is closer.

I can probably be considered a fanatic on this topic. In principal I have nothing against early-life infantcide either, as little babies don't seem sufficiently human-like to me.

by someone (s0me1smail(a)gmail(d)com) on Thu Aug 23rd, 2007 at 10:43:20 AM EST
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Some nights out I'm happy for it to occurr up to the age of about 20.

Life should consist in at least fifty percent pure waste of time, and the rest doing what you please.
by ceebs (bunchofwankers (at) gmail (dot) com) on Thu Aug 23rd, 2007 at 10:45:47 AM EST
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And when I lived in my apartment near the fading nightclubs of Leeson Street I'd have supported it up to about seventy, especially coming up to Christmas.
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Thu Aug 23rd, 2007 at 10:49:44 AM EST
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Yup, I think you'd be considered a fanatic.

In principle I don't have a problem with the idea of extracting a viable child late on, though it's probably not a great idea medically for mother or child at that stage.

The problem with killing anything that isn't sufficiently human-like is that the line can be too easily redrawn - which is my main problem with euthanasia as well: opens up too many practical problems in real life.

by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Thu Aug 23rd, 2007 at 10:48:22 AM EST
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The problem of not having euthanasia opens up even more horrors, as far as I am concerned. I can think of many things worse than dying. Being trapped in some half-conscious comatose state is one of them. Mind, there ought to be some pretty serious conditions on this one. In the line of a living-will. Each person should have the opportunity to predetermine the set of conditions under which they would like their life ended, for conditions that would prohibit the person to make such a request directly, assistance for those that are able to make the request, but physically incapable of carrying it out, and an efficient poison pill to swallow, for those capable of that.
by someone (s0me1smail(a)gmail(d)com) on Thu Aug 23rd, 2007 at 11:03:47 AM EST
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What if you're not all that sick, but don't want to be a bother and the assorted variations on that. Does one have to be ill, in-pain, what?
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Thu Aug 23rd, 2007 at 11:05:11 AM EST
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If you are physically capable of swallowing the poison pill, you have to do it yourself.

No other conditions. Maybe a 4 week waiting period to not have people killing themselves due to temporary unhappiness. Otherwise, no conditions, no age requirement, or 'sanity' requirement.

I can think of nothing more inhumane than forcing someone to live against their wishes.

by someone (s0me1smail(a)gmail(d)com) on Thu Aug 23rd, 2007 at 11:09:28 AM EST
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Hmm. Don't like it. Too easy to manipulate people into popping the last pill if it's acceptable.
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Thu Aug 23rd, 2007 at 11:16:01 AM EST
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Sure. Still, less worse than making someone continue their misery against their wishes. Death is not the worst thing that can happen to you!
by someone (s0me1smail(a)gmail(d)com) on Thu Aug 23rd, 2007 at 11:18:16 AM EST
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I'm not quite certain that I'd consider suicide under pressure less awful than preventing someone offing themselves. It's not obvious to me where the point of balance is in this.
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Thu Aug 23rd, 2007 at 11:20:30 AM EST
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If I may be so bold to reveal the ending of Mar Adentro (spoiler alert!):

In the end, Rámon Sampredo (the protagonist), who's been paralysed from the neck down for close to thirty years, commits suicide by drinking a poisonous liquid through a straw from a glass standing on a table right next to his bed. Friends of his prepared the liquid and placed the glass right next to him, but ultimately the decision to drinking the liquid is his. I'd have a hard time convicting his friends for anything, other than being good friends.


"The basis of optimism is sheer terror" - Oscar Wilde

by NordicStorm (michael<-at->sturmbaum.net) on Thu Aug 23rd, 2007 at 11:21:00 AM EST
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