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That pretty much sums up your character (or lack of). Have a good life.
by BJ Lange (langebj@gmail.com) on Thu Aug 23rd, 2007 at 11:08:27 AM EST
[ Parent ]
You may be right. After all: "Just because you are a character doesn't mean that you have character." That still begs the question, however: which is more important?

I'm pretty sure that I am a character. I find this far more valuable than having character. More fun too!

Cheers to you too!

by someone (s0me1smail(a)gmail(d)com) on Thu Aug 23rd, 2007 at 11:15:34 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Your comment is unduly harsh and insulting.

someone's comment above was very much on topic - or do you deny that sexual intercourse requires two people, and that both are responsible for it to happen or not?

The difference with pregnancy and abortion is that it will affect one person a lot more than the other, so the decision has to be assymetric there.

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes

by Jerome a Paris (jeromeguillet@yahoo.fr) on Thu Aug 23rd, 2007 at 01:26:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]
To be fair, I understand the reaction. Here he's telling   a heartfelt story about his child, and he gets a seemingly sarcastic "oh, how touching!" in response?

Not that I disagree with someone's sentiment (and any comment quoting Monty Python is a-ok in my book), but I see why one would react in that way...

"The basis of optimism is sheer terror" - Oscar Wilde

by NordicStorm (michael<-at->sturmbaum.net) on Thu Aug 23rd, 2007 at 01:49:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]
As a woman, that heartfelt story gives me chills or horror -- I HOPE it's bullshit that he's making up.  Otherwise, his son has somehow learned so little respect for his own mother that he thinks she would have gladly aborted him if given the chance.  How sick is that?

And, as someone points out, apparently no thought whatsoever to his father's role.  Pointing out that we're all here because our parents didn't use contraception is entirely on point.

Maybe we can eventually make language a complete impediment to understanding. -Hobbes

by Izzy (izzy at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Aug 23rd, 2007 at 02:01:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Aah, I see what you're saying. I didn't quite think my previous comment through.

"The basis of optimism is sheer terror" - Oscar Wilde
by NordicStorm (michael<-at->sturmbaum.net) on Thu Aug 23rd, 2007 at 02:10:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]
NordicStorm - Thank you.

The story is very true and was repeated to us by his teacher who was taken aback by his very thought through comment at such a young age. I had never thought much about the topic until I heard this and then questioned my own values concerning the sanctity of life: death penalties and abortion.

The birth mother was only about 16 and not able to make her own decision, so she relied on her mother who believed that the child should be allowed to live and the right couple selected for adoption.

by BJ Lange (langebj@gmail.com) on Thu Aug 23rd, 2007 at 02:29:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]
So if your son had said he hoped contraception would be made illegal otherwise he and others wouldn't be there, would you and his teacher still have thought this was a reasonable line of thought?  How about if he came out strongly against abstinence programs?  

Do you think it's ok for your son to believe his birth mother would have gladly aborted him if not for the intervention of others?  What would your reaction have been if he'd said he was relieved his mother didn't leave him in a dumpster?  Would you have said, yeah, you're mighty lucky that's illegal or she might have?

Perhaps you should try to be more wise than a fifth grader and reassure him that his birth mother probably loves him and has his best interests at heart, instead of reinforcing his fears that she'd have wiped him out of existence if given the chance.  You and his teacher should be ashamed of yourselves.


Maybe we can eventually make language a complete impediment to understanding. -Hobbes

by Izzy (izzy at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Aug 23rd, 2007 at 03:04:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Perhaps when he gets older he'll realize that if he had never been, he wouldn't have cared (and be able to consider my statement philosophically). Or, put another way, someday he might be able to view the world outside of his current egocentric lens.

you are the media you consume.

by MillMan (millguy at gmail) on Thu Aug 23rd, 2007 at 04:34:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]
When one starts walking up the causality chain of low probability events such as ever having been born, one very much end up in silly territory. "Oh, I'm glad that my parents got really drunk one night in High School and got knocked up, or I wouldn't be here." The 'touching story' I find rather manipulative. Remember the Snowflake babies?

Snowflake children is a term used by organizations that promote the adoption of embryos left over from in vitro fertilization to describe children that result, where the children's parents were not the original cell donors.
...
President George W. Bush has made public appearances together with snowflake children while speaking about his support for adult stem cell research and his opposition to embryonic stem cell research.


It's the same manipulative, emotional nonsense. I mean, clearly I don't wish for any of these people to not have been born. This, however, does not lead my to conclude that whatever circumstances in their pre-birth life they emphasize as crucial to their very existence ought to be specifically protected. Just as I don't think we should start telling teens to drink and screw more without contraception 'cause some people have been born as a consequence of this.

Thus, I felt an appropriately sarcastic, dismissive and insensitive response was in order.

by someone (s0me1smail(a)gmail(d)com) on Thu Aug 23rd, 2007 at 02:20:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]
"Oh, I'm glad that my parents got really drunk one night in High School and got knocked up, or I wouldn't be here."

OK, I'll volunteer to go too far:
"Thank God " ... no on second thought even I cannot bring myself to type the "logical extreme" version of that. No asbestos suit is thick enough.

-----
sapere aude

by Number 6 on Fri Aug 24th, 2007 at 05:35:39 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I dare you!
No, really, I'm SOO staying out of this thread! Mine fields wherever you look...

"If you know your enemies and know yourself, you will not be imperiled in a hundred battles." Sun Tzu
by Turambar (sersguenda at hotmail com) on Fri Aug 24th, 2007 at 05:42:48 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Double-dare ya! :)

Yes, positions are firmly entrenched so that's probably the wisest.


-----
sapere aude

by Number 6 on Fri Aug 24th, 2007 at 08:03:20 AM EST
[ Parent ]
His own comment back to me:

"You may be right. After all: "Just because you are a character doesn't mean that you have character." That still begs the question, however: which is more important?"

Your criticism should be directed to back to him unless feel it is acceptable to poke fun at my son.

by BJ Lange (langebj@gmail.com) on Thu Aug 23rd, 2007 at 02:36:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Um, no, I am questioning the relevance of your story. As far as I am concerned this all rather unrelated to your son, see this comment.
by someone (s0me1smail(a)gmail(d)com) on Thu Aug 23rd, 2007 at 02:47:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

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